Yes spring water will be what I use. I honestly truthfully am not sure to be honest with you what the hardness for either water source is but I will let you know. I am going to take a sample of the spring water down and have him test it. I will also buy one of the api test kits but the ph one will not even register with the spring water because I tried it before after I got out of fish keeping I was there one day and brought some home and the ph wouldn't even register because the api kit doesn't go that low so as I researched it I found out that the water comes out 5.9 which explains why my api test wouldn't work. Anyhow I am going to take a sample of it in and have him to check it. Do you happen to know what a ideal gh should be for angelfish neon tetras and hatchet fish should be? I know discus are very delicate fish and need lots of upkeep with them and he said one of his customers keep them in that water and has no problem but just because he is keeping them doesn't mean the water is where it should be ideally. I googled the hardness and can't find anything on the spring water only thing I could find is ph of it.
Question about ph
- Thread starter Shaunm81
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The Spring water is likely fine, but there are some issues. First, water changes. You should be changing 50-70% of the tank volume once each week. This means getting that much water every week. Is this feasible? If the pH is 6 or lower, that is not a problem for soft water fish, and the GH is likely to be on the soft side. It is just the mechanics of keeping a supply of this.
Another thing about local Spring water could be pathogens. If this is a spring creek, pathogens are more likely than if it is underground and using a well to source it.
On your tap water, it is a good idea to know the GH, KH and pH of this water. Obviously if it is OK it will make life much simpler for water changes, and emergency water changes (they do occur).
An 'ideal" GH or pH is difficult to say because most fish have some latitude. We always start with the actual parameters (GH, KH and pH) of the source water you intend using or have coming out of the tap, and then decide on how to go forward.
You want life to be simple, there is plenty enough to go awry in an aquarium without making things more complicated.
The Spring water is likely fine, but there are some issues. First, water changes. You should be changing 50-70% of the tank volume once each week. This means getting that much water every week. Is this feasible? If the pH is 6 or lower, that is not a problem for soft water fish, and the GH is likely to be on the soft side. It is just the mechanics of keeping a supply of this.
Another thing about local Spring water could be pathogens. If this is a spring creek, pathogens are more likely than if it is underground and using a well to source it.
On your tap water, it is a good idea to know the GH, KH and pH of this water. Obviously if it is OK it will make life much simpler for water changes, and emergency water changes (they do occur).
An 'ideal" GH or pH is difficult to say because most fish have some latitude. We always start with the actual parameters (GH, KH and pH) of the source water you intend using or have coming out of the tap, and then decide on how to go forward.
You want life to be simple, there is plenty enough to go awry in an aquarium without making things more complicated.
The Spring water is likely fine, but there are some issues. First, water changes. You should be changing 50-70% of the tank volume once each week. This means getting that much water every week. Is this feasible? If the pH is 6 or lower, that is not a problem for soft water fish, and the GH is likely to be on the soft side. It is just the mechanics of keeping a supply of this.
Another thing about local Spring water could be pathogens. If this is a spring creek, pathogens are more likely than if it is underground and using a well to source it.
On your tap water, it is a good idea to know the GH, KH and pH of this water. Obviously if it is OK it will make life much simpler for water changes, and emergency water changes (they do occur).
An 'ideal" GH or pH is difficult to say because most fish have some latitude. We always start with the actual parameters (GH, KH and pH) of the source water you intend using or have coming out of the tap, and then decide on how to go forward.
You want life to be simple, there is plenty enough to go awry in an aquarium without making things more complicated.
Hi yes I could do larger water changes on it. I honestly wasn't even going to get back into it but I just miss fish keeping. Yeah this water comes from a underground source. Water comes out of a hillside and people gather it up. I am thinking maybe about giving those little neon tetras a try still really thinking yet. I figure once I do get setup I probably should drip acclimate the new fish to the lower water ph and chemistry. I don't know what the water the pet shop uses is I'm thinking like in the 8s ph range there I think.
Shanunm81,
Aside from the concerns about pathogens in water you collect yourself, also consider the amount of particulate organic carbons (POC’s) in the water that you can or can’t see with the naked eye. Even if you test the water at the source for nutrients such as n03 and P04 (nitrate and phosphate) and it is within limits, consider that they will only raise in time as POC’s decompose into dissolved organic carbons (DOC’s).
For example, you could take a sample of spring water today and it reads 0 for n03 and PO4. Hold that same water in a bucket for a week and test it again and the levels will be higher, sometimes significantly or sometimes trivially depending on POC levels. Not only will these raise measurable nutrients but also nutrients we can’t or don’t measure on a hobbyist level such as glucose, amino acids, carbohydrates, etc. These help fuel algal growth and in excess deteriorate water quality for fish. Similar to how decomposing plant matter fuels algal growth in a planted tank, we try to remove plant detritus to avoid adding DOC’s to the water column.
If you must use spring water, I suggest treating it in some way first. A process of boiling, straining through an extra fine micron sock (culinary or reef aquarium suppliers should have these) and using activated carbon in your filter should minimize risks.
Aside from the concerns about pathogens in water you collect yourself, also consider the amount of particulate organic carbons (POC’s) in the water that you can or can’t see with the naked eye. Even if you test the water at the source for nutrients such as n03 and P04 (nitrate and phosphate) and it is within limits, consider that they will only raise in time as POC’s decompose into dissolved organic carbons (DOC’s).
For example, you could take a sample of spring water today and it reads 0 for n03 and PO4. Hold that same water in a bucket for a week and test it again and the levels will be higher, sometimes significantly or sometimes trivially depending on POC levels. Not only will these raise measurable nutrients but also nutrients we can’t or don’t measure on a hobbyist level such as glucose, amino acids, carbohydrates, etc. These help fuel algal growth and in excess deteriorate water quality for fish. Similar to how decomposing plant matter fuels algal growth in a planted tank, we try to remove plant detritus to avoid adding DOC’s to the water column.
If you must use spring water, I suggest treating it in some way first. A process of boiling, straining through an extra fine micron sock (culinary or reef aquarium suppliers should have these) and using activated carbon in your filter should minimize risks.
Hmmm I'm thinking about how I could boil that much water honestly. The extra fine micron sock will they work in a hang on the back filter? Like use in the filter area? I'm thinking maybe setting up a tank or tub with water change water in it or maybe something like a can deal to store it in. Could I just get away using activated carbon and how often should I change that in the treated can?
It is not totally necessary to engage in the boiling/straining process. Although, if I were in your shoes I would personally, the potential pathogens alone are not worth the risk for me.
The sock will not work in a filter, it would be used to strain the water after boiling to remove particulate. Keeping one in the filter simply allows the particulates to dissolve in the water defeating the purpose.
Starting with tap water gives aquarists a big advantage as it provides a clean,
filtered and chemically treated starting point
of water. In your case where you are starting with a more carbon rich source of natural, unfiltered water, I would in the least, try to kill any potential pathogens. Several methods could be used such as boiling, a UV sterilizer (used correctly), chlorinate then dechlorinate, ozone (used correctly) and probably some other methods somebody could chime in with.
Again, taking any steps to prepare the water, or not, is your decision. Just be aware of the potential pitfalls of using natural spring water.
The sock will not work in a filter, it would be used to strain the water after boiling to remove particulate. Keeping one in the filter simply allows the particulates to dissolve in the water defeating the purpose.
Starting with tap water gives aquarists a big advantage as it provides a clean,
filtered and chemically treated starting point
of water. In your case where you are starting with a more carbon rich source of natural, unfiltered water, I would in the least, try to kill any potential pathogens. Several methods could be used such as boiling, a UV sterilizer (used correctly), chlorinate then dechlorinate, ozone (used correctly) and probably some other methods somebody could chime in with.
Again, taking any steps to prepare the water, or not, is your decision. Just be aware of the potential pitfalls of using natural spring water.
I completely understand and I appreciate your help. Now I do have a Reverse Osmosis system that I used a few years back for my salt tank but could this be a better idea? I know that they remove all mineral content and everything like that but would there be a way to reintroduce mineral content? I had a friend that was really smart and helped me with a saltwater tank a few years ago but he's moved away and everything so now I just have the barracuda aqua fx 3 stage ro setup. I would need all new filters and a new membrane for it though. And any idea what the ph would be out of Ro water? Sorry so many questions I just want to get this all right. Thanks
It's OK to think these things through, but when you get the GH, KH and pH of your source water you may be able to work with it. We can tell more once we know those numbers.
Re the RO, yes this is another method for pure water when the tap water has problems. If you stay with soft water fish, you can use straight RO with no re-mineralization. Less bother, but as you likely know already, making RO water is not quick.
Right, so I can just use straight reverse osmosis water for soft water fish? I thought it would have to have mineral content or is the mineral content needed for like freshwater planted tanks? Thanks for your help
Retired Viking
Fish Connoisseur
Most soft water fish store up what they can from the soft water, they are designed that way. I mix it with my tap water after it is de-chlorinated to soften my water down but you can use it straight.
Yes you can use straight RO for soft water fish; there may be a couple of questionable exceptions, but I have been using zero GH/KH water having a pH in the 4-6 range (each tank is biologically different) for 30 years and I only have soft water species, most are wild caught.
Plants will need mineral, and here you can use substrate tabs for substrate-rooted plants that are heavy feeders, or a comprehensive liquid if you have floating plants and plants not rooted in the substrate, or both. I use both, depending upon the tank/plants.
Retired Viking
Fish Connoisseur
AS for plants you should add fertilizer because there is not much there. I have a fully planted tank with soft water tetra and use Flourish at 1/2 dose.
Retired Viking
Fish Connoisseur
Well I bought a uv sterilizer unit rated for a 50 gallon tank to use with the spring water to kill parasites pathogens. Should I use it all the time ?
Now I'm confused. Had you decided not to use RO?
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