Question About Naming Shops.

[ColR1948]

I want to make it clear I'm just asking a question in general and not meaning to pick an argument.

I have seen topics locked or warned about giving a shop a bad name, I know this is for legal reasons and I understand that.

So this made me think what about threads where someone for example might say, "I bought a so and so filter and it failed after a few weeks," then another person replies and also said they had trouble with the same make and to steer clear of them, then a few more also agree.

This could be any equipment, filter, heater, tank or whatever, so why is that allowed, surely some of these big companies are more powerful than a shop and they too could take legal action?

This is why I ask, if someone CAN say don't bother buying one of those they are rubbish, but CAN'T name a shop and say don't go there they are rubbish so what is the difference?

 

[garyspence84]

Well said, this is something I have thought of myself. I don't c any difference at all (the naming thing that is).

Although, companies that make products, such as filters, tend to come from 1 place, same people and machines mass producing them, so the chances are, if 1 is rubbish, then they all could be. But shops have stores up and down the country, and just because 1 store in 1 part of the coountry has a bad name, that's not to say the same store somewhere else has the same reputation.

But in the eyes of the law, its the exact same thing.

Edit. spelling

 

[techen]

My father owns a shop. He sells products of course but if someone complains its broken it starts a chain reactions and before he knows it hes lost 20 customers due to one bad product he only sells and does not manufactor.

 

[MBOU]

Well, discussing whether or not someone likes or dislikes a product is completely different, no manufacturer expects every single person to like their product but so long as their product is exactly as they describe it (whether it works for some people or not...) then they arent going to be bothered if people dont like it, thats the whole point of coming out with newand better designed products...

Naming and shaming specific businesses however is something completely different.... when people slate say.. the Fluval filters... thats fine, so someone doesnt like the Fluval range and thats their choice... but if that person turned around and started slating Hagen (who have Fluval/Marina as their indoor range and Laguna as their pond range) then we would have to close topic and remove the posts.

See the difference? Naming and shaming products is one thing... naming and shaming businesses/people is another legal problem altogether,

Lots of the Pets @ Home threads would have been able to stay open if people used their brains occasionally and didn't slate the company! They can say what experience they have, what they bought their and so on but as soon as someone feels the need to say "never buy anything from Pets @ Home" or "Pets @ Home are rubbish" the thread is ruined and we have to lock in.

That said... will move this thread to somewhere more suitable as it isnt fish related...

 

[ColR1948]

I'm still not understanding, by naming a shop, you say is a business, but by naming a company that manufactures equipement and saying it is rubbish, isn't the company in business too?

So if I had the money (I wish lol) to buy a company that makes such equipment would I not be in business?
What would I say to people if they asked what (business) are you in? Would I say, "I'm not in business but I own my own company, then they ask, "What business is that in?" I would say "They make things but we are not in business." See what I mean?

 

[moochy13]

from the response above yours i see it as, for example

pets at home = company = cant slate them
Hagen = company = cant slate them
Fluval = brand name for a hagen product = can slate them, because not everybody will like every fluval product, but to slate hagen would also affect their other ranges with no proof/experience, which would be libel i guess?

 

[the_lock_man]

Very fine line between what's acceptable and what's not.

I don't honestly see any difference between someone saying "Don't buy a Fluval filter, they are very badly made" and "Don't by fish from Pets @ Home, they don't look after their fish very professionally". Naming & shaming a product has the effect of influencing people in their future purchases, just as much as naming & shaming a company.

Is it acceptable to say "I went into Pets @ Home on Sunday and saw 20 dead fish in their tanks, I'm never buying anything from them ever again" ? (On the assumption that I'm stating facts). Is it then acceptable to say "I also recommend that no-one else buys anything from Pets @ Home ever again"?

 

[ColR1948]

This is what I was trying to get at, people read the threads and that influences their thoughts on a product.

(Poster) "I'm thinking of getting an xyz filter, anyone else had one of these?"
(Reply) "I had one but wouldn't get another, I had nothing but trouble with it, flooded my living room."
(Poster) "Thanks, I'll look at something else."

 

[Yanks15]

The problem with opinions is that everyone has one. BUT we (consumers) like to know what others have experienced with a specific product or store and do rely on those opinions in making our decisions. Most of us don't trust the manufacturers anymore when they claim to have the "magic cure" for whatever ails you or in this case what store/manufacturer caters to our hobby best. As proven by our individual tanks, we all like different things and should always respect others decisions in what they chose to do. Forums like this exist so that information can be passed along based on the experience of others. People can decide whether or not to use that information constructively. Unfortunately, that experience isn't always positive and most people hope that others with bad experiences are willing to pass that information along. That being said, it is not necessary to demean, defame, denigrate, or otherwise slander others. There are a few places that I myself will not buy fish from anymore and if asked I will simply state that I do not prefer to buy from them. Others may love these places. Remember, everyone has different experiences and can decide for themselves.


Thanks,
Steve

 

[ColR1948]

Yes that is shops but what about products?

An example has just been posted on the 'Tropical Section' about API test kits, someone said they are notorious for having a bad colour chart and another said they use API but might go for the Nutrafin next instead.
The funny thing is I haven't long bought an API and thought exactly the same, my old test kit was Nutrafin but the shop didn't have one so I got the API and wished I had gone elsewhere for the Nutrafin.
Any way this is truth by the way I just ordered a Nutrafin Ammonia kit off Ebay and that was before I read the thread I'm on about.

 

[Yanks15]

I did state that manufacturers are included. It's all about experiences. If someone has tried a product and don't feel it has lived up to their standards than they a right to say so and substantiate it. It doesn't mean that a flaming POS rant is necessary. Constructive criticism should always be allowed and welcomed (as far as I'm concerned).

As to the API thread, I posted in that thread about the color differences with the NO3 card. Notice, I didn't say that it was the worst product ever. Just made an observation. Others will decide.


Thanks,
Steve

 

[ColR1948]

Yes I did notice, but in that thread someone said Unfortunately they had just bought one but next time they will get the Nutrafin. So were they influenced by what was posted?

I will be honest, sometimes when I'm looking in to something and I read a few bad reports it puts me off that product even though there may be a few good reports, the bad reports put doubts in my mind, you will probably say I should have tried it and made my own mind up, sometimes I do then I say to myself, I should have listened when I was warned against it.

I was on a totally different forum a while ago, they have a general topic section and someone said they had not long bought a new washing machine and they have had the engineer to it twice already, the following comments were things like, I got rid of mine nothing but trouble, We had one ours was the same a load of rubbish, I wish I had known I could have told you about them etc etc.
So if I was thinking of getting a new washing machine and reading that, I would steer clear of that make, I would have been influenced, I wouldn't go and buy one and make my own mind up.

 

[Essjay]

There are whole websites dedicated to customers giving their opinions of products. Reevoo springs to mind, but also shops have review sections too. I'm not aware of Reevoo being sued because someone said washing machine xxx was a load of rubbish, or Argos being sued because someone said a cupboard was flimsy and had half the connecting screws missing. I always read these reviews before buying anything, that way we knew in advance that our new TV stand was good quality but had terrible instructions for putting it together.

Is this any different from someone on here stating the problems they've had with a certain brand filter?

 

[Yanks15]

Again, others will give their opinion if asked. I agree that most people will probably weigh a negative review more than a positive one. I do the same. Consumer Reports has made a ton off of giving their opinion. I usually take into consideration all information I can find. All negative opinions of a product can't be bundled together. Circumstances exist for each situation that may or may not be consistent with say a factory defect. Face it, if everyone stopped buying canister filters because someone said they had a leak, these types of filters would be extinct. But they aren't because they don't ALL leak, especially on their own. In a lot of cases, it's operator error- not tightening hoses, not lubricating seals, not seating the head properly, etc. For every bad rating there may be 5 good ratings. Does that make it a bad filter? I'm not advising anyone to try a product that they don't feel is worth it. Just research as much as you can and if you find that the product is inferior, than don't buy it.


Thanks,
Steve

 

[the_lock_man]

I'd like to see MBOU or another Mod responding to these points, please, given that it affects what is deemed acceptable and unacceptable to post on this forum.