Purigen Product Advice

[carmstrong]

Good Afternoon Fish Keepers, 
 
I had a question about this specific product. 
 
Its called Purigen
 

 
Has anyone used this product and is it safe?
 
I am researching on how to help remove further tannins from my tank despite my driftwood being soaked for a month and boiled. 
 
Any advice or information would be much appreciated. 
 
Thank you

 

[carmstrong]

In addition, is large water changes 25-50% every few days safe?
 
I wouldn't be disturbing the gravel or the filter media, but need to clear the tank of tannins. 
 
Thanks again for any advice

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I will start by saying I have never used the Product. But there was one time where somebody well respected who breeds wild discus and has one of the most complex acid water systems in the states suggested I might want to use it on a tank with wild altum angels. He explained it is believed that altum may communicate though the release of hormones. In a tank these could build up and cause problems. he suggested using Purigen to remove them. I never did take his advice. But clearly it is an effective remover of organics from tank water.
 
I did research it, While it does "clean" water a bunch, I am not so sure I want to remove what it removes from a tank. In a well established tank there are a whole host of bacteria which can break down organic wastes quite effectively. They coexist with the nitrifying bacteria and they actually work together. Here are a couple of quotes from Swiss Tropicals regarding Poret foam filters and how they work (this applies to other filters as well- note the author id a Ph.D. microbiologist).
 

 
Give the filter ample time (1-2 months or more) so that it builds up filter sludge. This filter sludge with its microorganisms will capture the small particles and keep your aquarium water crystal clear without the need for disposable floss or frequent filter maintenance. The foam itself can be rinsed and reused for many years...........
 
Poret® acts as a habitat for filter microorganisms that clean the water. Like all other filter media (with the exception of diatom filters, which are the only purely mechanical filters) the filtration efficiency of clean Poret® foam alone is really not that great. The highest efficiency is reached after several months, when some of the pore volume is filled with a flaky brown mud that smells much like moist garden soil. That mud is what cleans your water! The mud consists of more than 50% living organisms that depend on your fish waste. It is a whole zoo of little critters that form a microbial community, including aerobic bacteria that oxidize ammonia and nitrite, anaerobic bacteria that reduce nitrate, and protozoa, rotifers, and worms that consume bacteria and serve as fish food.

from http/www.swisstropicals.com/faq/
 
What the above is explaining is that in a well established tank with proper media (not only Poret can serve for this, other media can too) that there will be a variety of bacteris some of which will work to keep the water crystal clear. The thing is these other bacteria use a lot of the organics that Purigen appears to remove. The result would be having to keep using Purigen once you have started.
 
I believe it will remove the tannins but so should properly placed carbon and water changes. The question becomes do you mind removing a lot of other stuff which might help make an established tank run well were it left in a tank to promote establishing all the bacteria involved?
 
Here is the Seachem forum for Q&A on Purigen and recharging it - you might be interested in reading http/www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=3593
 
All other considerations aside, the primary difference between Purigen and Carbon is one can be cleaned and reused a bunch of times and the other cannot. But in the end, wood does not have an infinite supply of tannins- they will run out. For the amount of time this usually takes, using carbon and doing some extra water changes may work as effectively as using Purigen and might be cheaper in your case. As a rule of thumb I prefer using natural solutions to keeping a tank healthy over product based ones.

 

[DrRob]

I use it, with caution. I won't repeat what TTA has said, it's all good.
 
I will report that it was excellent at removing tannins, and that replenishing it has proved to be a problem for some, which a few people have put down to the water being used, as those using RO or distilled water had no trouble with the recharge, but worth bearing in mind as it's a very expensive single shot if your recharge fails.

 

[carmstrong]

Wow! TTA, Thats amazing! I wouldn't have even known where to search for such an article. Thank you
 
I agree, and it makes complete sense that the natural bacteria within the tank is vital and such products as Purigen would remove all of these organisms in one swipe. 
This I would not want and it has taken be two months to develop a well balanced tank. 
 
It was suggested to me that I should add more filtration to my tank (currently running this Filter) should I perhaps do so to help aid in clearing the water of tannins and overall health of the fish?
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the look of the tank, but i'm researching ways to naturally clear it. 
 
If I were to add more carbon, would a standard (activated) carbon pouch used for regular filters be safe to just float in the tank?
and
If I were to stick to the water change approach, how often can I water change and what volume is safe to remove on a regular basis?
 
Thank You for the advice, I appreciate it

 

[TwoTankAmin]

For carbon to work best it comes down to the same old issue there is with any media, including UV and that is dwell time. We usually uses filters for double and tripple duy. First we use them to clean the water using various media and bacteria. But we also use them to create current and often to agitate the surface to promote gas exchange. Howevr, when it comes to letting the bacteria do its thing, how long the water is in contact with the media before exiting the filter (or a UV unit) is important. This is especially true for carbon. Fast flow is an enemy of effective use of carbon. With A UV most folks have and independent circulatory method that is slower flow than the filters on the system. But for many of us carbon gets put into the same filter that holds everything else and which also creates current and surface agitation, This makes the carbon less effective.
 
Ideally, one should have a separate filter for the carbon, one which has a slower flow rate. it can still host bacteria and/or mechanical media, but it wont produse a lot of flow. For many this is not practica,l so we work with what we have.
 
As an aside, I run one tank where I want heavy staining and have to work to keep it that way. I am adding catappas, alder cones and even peat plus brewed rooibos tea. I rotate old wood out for new now and then as well. I have to work to keep it this way-  just the opposite of what you are looking at. Ain't fish keeping grand?

 

[carmstrong]

For carbon to work best it comes down to the same old issue there is with any media, including UV and that is dwell time. We usually uses filters for double and tripple duy. First we use them to clean the water using various media and bacteria. But we also use them to create current and often to agitate the surface to promote gas exchange. Howevr, when it comes to letting the bacteria do its thing, how long the water is in contact with the media before exiting the filter (or a UV unit) is important. This is especially true for carbon. Fast flow is an enemy of effective use of carbon. With A UV most folks have and independent circulatory method that is slower flow than the filters on the system. But for many of us carbon gets put into the same filter that holds everything else and which also creates current and surface agitation, This makes the carbon less effective.
 
Ideally, one should have a separate filter for the carbon, one which has a slower flow rate. it can still host bacteria and/or mechanical media, but it wont produse a lot of flow. For many this is not practica,l so we work with what we have.
 
As an aside, I run one tank where I want heavy staining and have to work to keep it that way. I am adding catappas, alder cones and even peat plus brewed rooibos tea. I rotate old wood out for new now and then as well. I have to work to keep it this way-  just the opposite of what you are looking at.

Ain't fish keeping grand?

 
Fish keeping is grand!  
 
So how often can I water change to remove the tannins?
 
once a day? once every two-three days?
Can I do 50% water change once every 3 days?

 

[tunagirll]

I think changing the water that frequently will stress your fish.

I use medical grade carbon on small tanks and purigen on the big ones.

 

[sparrow]

I usually 25%water change about every 2-3 weekS. I dont recommend doing a big change so often as this might shock the fish. Maybe 5-10% every few days if you must do it.