Pump question

[AbbeysDad]

So basically, that pump really can't start itself though....would the pump be already connected inline while the Python is attached to the sink? If so...I would need a shutoff valve between the sink connection and the pump? That way the hose to the tank is filled with water?

Very simply (assuming the drain to tub or toilet just won't work w/o a pump) you could use a "Y" hose connector with shut offs - so one end goes to the Python faucet adapter and the other to the pump. Once the siphon has started, you shut off the sink side of the "Y" and open the pump side of the "Y" and plug the pump in.
To refill you unplug the pump, shut off the pump side of the "Y", open the Python side and turn on the faucet water.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I have done this and the flow from the tank into the sink, with the tap off, is barely a trickle. It would take hours to drain a tank. If the tank is above the level of the sink so gravity is stronger, as down a floor of the house, it should work better, but my tanks and the sink are on the same level, The laundry sink is the only one with a faucet with the necessary threads capability, and the Python is 75 feet.

That's interesting because my tank is at a standard (commercial stand) height and although I use the submersible pump, when off, the water siphons into the kitchen sink just fine...just not quite as fast as the pump. Sometimes I siphon out to the front yard (obviously lower) and that is a bit faster. You don't have a bathroom on the same floor level as the tanks (again thinking of the toilet option)?

 

[Byron]

That's interesting because my tank is at a standard (commercial stand) height and although I use the submersible pump, when off, the water siphons into the kitchen sink just fine...just not quite as fast as the pump. Sometimes I siphon out to the front yard (obviously lower) and that is a bit faster. You don't have a bathroom on the same floor level as the tanks (again thinking of the toilet option)?

The house is one level on a concrete pad, so there is no difference in height between any of the rooms. When I say trickle, I mean a stream that is not drops but the lowest non-drop it can be to be called a trickle. In other words, very, very., very minimal.

 

[AbbeysDad]

The house is one level on a concrete pad, so there is no difference in height between any of the rooms. When I say trickle, I mean a stream that is not drops but the lowest non-drop it can be to be called a trickle. In other words, very, very., very minimal.

Uhm, okay....but your toilet (or tub/shower) is much lower than your sinks - you do have indoor plumbing, right? <hehe>

 

[Byron]

Uhm, okay....but your toilet (or tub/shower) is much lower than your sinks - you do have indoor plumbing, right? <hehe>

I can't imagine 18 inches difference being significant. Not to mention the fuss this would be to get it started, and then take an hour or two to half drain a tank. It's slow enough with the tap on, though I have noticed that the new Aqueon faucet adapter uses much less tap water to drain the tank than the old Python adapter. The threads wore out and I bought an Aqueon as they don't carry Python parts anywhere local; the draining and filling is faster than it was with the Python, and as I say the tap water running on its own is much less.

 

[AbbeysDad]

@Byron - "The fuss?" is no more than a shut off and a quick disconnect?!
And 18" could make all the difference as it should put you well below the lowest level in the tank and not much different than a bucket on the floor.

But please refer to thread #16 which would allow you to use the less expensive Eco pump inline with a quick disconnect and a 'Y' adapter.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

To drain the tank have you tried disconnecting from the Python faucet adapter after the siphon has started and placing the hose in the tub or the toilet (much lower)??? Then for the refill you hook it back to the Python adapter.

I haven't tried it yet but I just might. If it seems to work I may just try some sort of adapter to the shower head to get it started. Not sure. I have a totally different hose for filling so it's not a problem there. Filling is easy and even wit that long of a distance it doesn't lose temperature.

Very simply (assuming the drain to tub or toilet just won't work w/o a pump) you could use a "Y" hose connector with shut offs - so one end goes to the Python faucet adapter and the other to the pump. Once the siphon has started, you shut off the sink side of the "Y" and open the pump side of the "Y" and plug the pump in.
To refill you unplug the pump, shut off the pump side of the "Y", open the Python side and turn on the faucet water.

One question....if I'm to do this if the tub thing doesn't work.....and the pump is in the bathroom....I have my connections to the different tanks. Would it hurt the pump or make it stop working if there was a bit of an air gap from switching the hose from one tank to another? Or would a shut off at this end of the hose keep the water from being sucked out?

 

[AbbeysDad]

One question....if I'm to do this if the tub thing doesn't work.....and the pump is in the bathroom....I have my connections to the different tanks. Would it hurt the pump or make it stop working if there was a bit of an air gap from switching the hose from one tank to another? Or would a shut off at this end of the hose keep the water from being sucked out?

Well I'm not sure. I think once you had the process working for the first tank, if/when you stop the pump AND use a shut off, you'd have enough water in the hose so you could hook to another tank, open the valve and start the pump and a new siphon would be created - I don't think the slight amount of air in the hose would be a problem for the pump (it just might sound funny as the air passed though). If flow did stop, worse case is that you'd need to use the Python faucet adapter again as you did for the 1st tank.
BUT first please try option 1 I suggested. With a quick disconnect between the hose and the Python faucet adapter, get the siphon started, then disconnect and place the hose in the (much lower) tub or toilet. I think you just might be surprised. Basically what I'm suggesting isn't much different than siphoning into a bucket - it's just through a long hose!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Well I'm not sure. I think once you had the process working for the first tank, if/when you stop the pump AND use a shut off, you'd have enough water in the hose so you could hook to another tank, open the valve and start the pump and a new siphon would be created - I don't think the slight amount of air in the hose would be a problem for the pump (it just might sound funny as the air passed though). If flow did stop, worse case is that you'd need to use the Python faucet adapter again as you did for the 1st tank.
BUT first please try option 1 I suggested. With a quick disconnect between the hose and the Python faucet adapter, get the siphon started, then disconnect and place the hose in the (much lower) tub or toilet. I think you just might be surprised. Basically what I'm suggesting isn't much different than siphoning into a bucket - it's just through a long hose!

I will try the first option for sure, though I don't have a quick disconnect. I will just try to unscrew it first and get it a little loose. Same idea. If it works ok I will probably look for a different adapter that can go to my showerhead so it could start the siphon already in the tub.

The one thing with the pump....is if it's too fast, I may not be able to get to the bathroom fast enough to switch it off. This is why I asked that if I close a valve closer to the tank if it would be able to suck anything through the hose. If not I wouldn't have to shut the pump off. See what I mean? Unless I can get water to suck through the hose by the Python and go THROUGH the pump without actually starting the pump. Then I could have it set up closer to where I could shut it off if needed. Once water goes through the pump I could turn it on. The line down the hallway is stationary to the bathroom but the end in the living room is what I would move around.

 

[AbbeysDad]

Unless I can get water to suck through the hose by the Python and go THROUGH the pump without actually starting the pump. Then I could have it set up closer to where I could shut it off if needed. Once water goes through the pump I could turn it on. The line down the hallway is stationary to the bathroom but the end in the living room is what I would move around.

Water will pass through the pump when the pump is unplugged. Remember I said I'm using it submersible. When I drain the tank I run the hose to the sink. After I unplug the pump, water continues to drain as the siphon is still active (until I use a shut off valve). Now I usually pre-filter water, but on occasion I have connected the hose to my kitchen sink faucet and refilled the tank right back through the pump (with the pump still unplugged of course).

Edit: Come to think of it now, instead of the "Y" method I wrote about, you could put the pump directly inline. Start the siphon with the Python faucet adapter and the pump unplugged. Then disconnect the hose from the faucet adapter, secure the hose in the tub or toilet, and then plug the pump in. It should work just fine!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks! Hopefully lowering the hose a bit will work but if not, at least I have a good option!

 

[Byron]

@Byron - "The fuss?" is no more than a shut off and a quick disconnect?!
And 18" could make all the difference as it should put you well below the lowest level in the tank and not much different than a bucket on the floor.

But please refer to thread #16 which would allow you to use the less expensive Eco pump inline with a quick disconnect and a 'Y' adapter.

I had finished my weekly water changes yesterday before I saw this thread, but next week if I remember I will experiment with a bucket on the floor of the utility room (next to the sink) to see if the draw without the tap connection is viable.

If I do decide to get a pump to avoid multi-buckets of water this summer, it will be an external that attaches outside the house and not in the tanks. But even this is a lot of fuss and bother. Repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the Python from the laundry room faucet for six tanks, when the fish room is at one end of the house and the sink at the other, then out to the garden...I call that fuss and bother. If I can still haul a bucket of water from the fish tank to the back door which is off the fish room and dump it into a tub...much simpler. But a second hose just to drain the tanks with the external pump would solve this, as I could use it to drain, and the Python to fill. It is just that when one has to count pennies I would rather spend them on other things than a hose, again so long as I am physically able to do this. With my cancer, I never know.

 

[AbbeysDad]

The Eco 396 (and other Eco models) can be used either submersible OR inline.
When you speak of out to the garden, I wonder, do you have a silcock/outdoor spigot? If so, the pump and the Python faucet adapter could both be outside. With a simple shut off valve on the hose, you could charge the hose once, then drain tank after tank.

footnote: If it was me, I'd make an adjustable PVC hook for draining that I'd just move from one tank to the next while maintaining the siphon with a valve (pump or not)

 

[Byron]

The Eco 396 (and other Eco models) can be used either submersible OR inline.
When you speak of out to the garden, I wonder, do you have a silcock/outdoor spigot? If so, the pump and the Python faucet adapter could both be outside. With a simple shut off valve on the hose, you could charge the hose once, then drain tank after tank.

footnote: If it was me, I'd make an adjustable PVC hook for draining that I'd just move from one tank to the next while maintaining the siphon with a valve (pump or not)

There is the outdoor tap, but it is only cold, no hot water, so that could not be used to fill tanks.

 

[AbbeysDad]

There is the outdoor tap, but it is only cold, no hot water, so that could not be used to fill tanks.

Yes, so you use the outdoor tap simply to start the siphon to drain your tanks, then the utility sink tap to refill them. Way better than hauling buckets!