Problems with Angelfish...

[adcs]

I first posted about this in the Breeding Forum but I think this would have been a better place.

I get most of my information from books and so far I haven’t read anything about Angelfish being territorial or about the space that they require, so it was a bit of a shock reading the posts in the New World Cichlid forum and realising the mistakes that I’ve made.

At first it looked like 3 of my Angelfish had reached sexual maturity and 2 started to fight. My initial question was ‘If I separated the girls from the boys, would they stop fighting?’ sounds like a dumb question, but moving one of the 2 that were fighting calmed things down and everybody seems happy again.

The problems I have now, is that a) my tanks are over stocked so I have to rethink the tank situation, b ) I wasn’t aware that Angelfish needed so much space to themselves.

I’m struggling for space but I intend to buy a 42 x 15 x 18 (186l / 41IG / 49USG) in the short term and then later something like a Jewel Trigon 190 (190l /42IG / 50USG).

Right now I have the following:

Jewel Rekord 96 (96l / 21 IG / 25 USG) planted 'community' tank

Black-lace Angel – 8 months old
Golden Headed Marbled Angel – 8 months old
Golden Headed Marbled Angel – Not sure, adult when I bought it
2 x Black Angels – 2 + months old
5 Neon Tetras
2 Cardinal Tetras
6 Glowlight Tetras
4 Corrys (2 peppered, 2 bronze)
3 Khulli Loaches
4 Black Phantom Tetras
6 Cherry Barbs
6 Platinum Tetras
2 Siamese Fighters (Male & Female)

36 x 12 x 15 (126l / 23 IG / 27.5 USG) fast flowing 'Barb' tank

4 Rosy Barbs
1 Long-finned Rosy Barb
1 Long Finned Barb
1 Tiger Barb
5 Green Tiger Barbs
1 Sailfin Plec
5 Danios
4 Checker Barbs
2 Mountain Minnows
3 Hillstream Loaches
1 Spotted Hillstream Loach
Golden Headed Marbled Angel – 6 months old

The Angelfish in the Barb tank seems happy enough and the current doesn't bother him.

Finally, the purpose of this post was to ask:

a) I wonder if any of you would be able to offer sensible suggestions of what I can do to improve this situation.

b ) My initial questions still stands - would it make a difference if I had all female or all male Angelfish in a tank - would they still fight or are they just territorial and it doesn't matter what sex they are?

Nobody likes being told that they crap and rubbish fishkeepers and that they shouldn't be looking after so much as a goldfish, so be gentle with me

Your advice would be much appreciated.

 

[jams.alaskan]

I keep reading here that neons are the natural prey for angelfish - are you having any problems with them being in the same tank? I wouldn't say that you weren't a good fishkeeper... everyone's alive and you are looking for solutions so I'd say you are on the high side for fishkeeping skills. If the 49gal tank that you are getting in the short term is a least 18 inches deep I think that you have found some room already for some of the angels.
My bagpipe instructor breeds angels in sim sized tanks, they pair up and she moves the "truely in love" to their own space for the eggs. These tanks are not sparcely populated, she does weekly if not biweekly water changes and is very careful with their feeding and water conditions.
Perhaps you could provide more personal space for yours in the short term with tall plants and a change in your aquarium decor.
Best of luck - I'm sure your going to be fine...

ALASKA

 

[Naomi]

Ok, I am by no means an expert fish keeper here....but let me go through your tanks one at a time and tell you what I think you could change....if anyone else has better suggestions please feel free to correct me....like I said....I'm not an expert.

Tank #1
am I right in thinking that it is a 25 gallon tank? In this size tank I would only house 2 angels. They can get pretty territorial. Your best bet would be to let them pair up and then keep the pair that looks like they will mate. They may or may not actually raise their eggs but it would be fun to watch (do you have someplace you could sell or give away any surviving baby angelfish?)...you could also try to pick two males or two females that get along well and keep them....no babies that way.
I also noticed that a lot of the fish that you have (Tetras and Barbs) are schooling fish, which means that you should keep a minimum of 6 of these kinds of fish. In this tank I think you could also keep 1 small school of 6 or 8 fish (either tetras or barbs). They do better and stay less stressed when they are in a bigger school, but 6 or 8 would be fine in this size tank.
Your khuli loaches and your cory cats are probably fine since they are bottom dwellers and don't share a whole lot of the same space as the angels. Even if you go down to 2 angels, 6 or 8 tetras your khuli loaches and cory cats you will want to stay on top of your water changes. It might be a little over crowded, but in my experience if you keep PERFECT water paramaters you can get away with a little over crowding...I know thats not easy to do, but if you pay really close attention to your fish and ask for help when something starts to go wrong you just might pull it off.

Tank #2
I don't know as much about the kinds of fish that you have in this tank....and my main concern would be that you don't have enough of each kind of fish for a school. Your best bet here is to read up on the kind of fish that you have (espically the loaches) and find out how much space they will need when they are full grown. It is always good to start out assuming that your fish will reach maximum size and plan for that.

I think if you are going to buy some bigger tanks really soon you probably can keep the fish that you have now....keep on top of your water changes and make sure the tanks are in the best condition possible. Then when you get your new tanks you can jump start the cycle by using the filter media from your old tanks, some water from your old tanks, and some of the gravel from your old tanks. This will get your cycle going much quicker and you can move some of your fish over to the new tanks quicker.

I have only had fish for a couple of years so there are a lot of people on here that know more than me....hopefully someone will come along soon who has som good advice!
Good luck with everything and I hope this helped you some. Keep asking questions, thats a sign of a good fish keeper!

Naomi

 

[silver]

All I can say is that you have about 20 or so TOO many fish for your 25 gallon. Really the only way around this is to give at LEAST 3 Angels up and most of the other fish as well, except the kuhli and cory's. Or buy a 55 gallon tank for all of your current fish that are in there. And even then you shouldn't add anymore to it because the fish that are in the 25 would be almost too much for a 55!! YIKES!!! Then you could split up your 27 gallon and put half of them in your empty 25!!!


Sorry, but it's for the mental/physical health of the fish.

PS...your Angels would act a lot better in a larger tank as well. It might not straighten them out completely, but they'd be better still.


Good Luck!

Silver

 

[Doggfather]

like is said in your other thread!

WAY overstocked for a 25 Gallon

 

[adcs]

Thanks for your help and advice, everybody.

All my Angelfish were nice and friendly and didn't bother anybody until one of the younger Golden-headed Marbled Angels started to pick on the Black-Lace Angel. This was resolved by moving one of them out of the tank. They don't bother any of my other fish - they even let my male Siamese Fighter hang around with them.

I'm now conscious of their needs and will try and find a way of giving them the space they need.

I think I'm going to end up with a fish tank in every room of the house...

Thanks

Ange xxx

 

[Silly me]

My neigbour has a tank with
1 Polypretrus "9
2 Bala shrks "2
2 pleco's "4
4 unknown tetras "1
2 angles "1
3 Cory's "1
3 Danio's "1
1 Black Widow "1

all of this in a 8gallon tank

Now he want to add a elephant nose and he was also talking about some flying fish he saw is the LFS

NOW THATS A BAD FISHKEEPER!!! you are doing great.

Your tanks sound fine the 25G is overstocked but dont let it get you down, keep the water clean and you should be fine

When you do get your new tank, you could think about just adding the Angels and
the 4 corrys and the 3 kulli loaches, and you whould have a great Angels tank, There will always be the one or two you need to remove ( like you one you did move) but the rest should be pairing off and stop chaseing the odd one out.

I have heard more people having success with 4 or more angels than 2-3 or unpair number in a tank big or small. If the tank is big enough the angles might get each a corner or flat rock that they WILL defend, If the tank is small they will fight over the same rock or space.

in a 3ft tank you could house 6 (3pairs) easy with out any fights, aslong as there is a spawning place for each pair and well planted between them for hiding space, they might never spawn there but would have a place to defend. but you would destroy the whole setup by having 6 unpaired angles or adding other fish that will "invade" these spaces.