Possible 20 gallon high tank journal

[jaylach]

I may be new here on this forum.
I’m not new to the hobby of keeping aquatic life.

I meant new to the forums.

The scud thing is new for me and just something I want to try. If it works, great. If not I'm not out much.

One thing that is a plus and minus is that I'm old school and run under gravel filtration...

The plus is that I'm using decent sized river pebbles for the substrate so the scuds will have a good living environment.

The minus side is that, if the scuds thrive, I won't very well be able to vacuum the substrate as I'd be sucking up a lot of the population. I suppose I could still vacuum running the water through a sieve to catch the scuds but that would pretty disruptive to the little beasties. This could actually be a plus as, if the scuds thrive, substrate vacuums really should not be needed as the scuds will eat anything that gets there.

Actually, overall, the substrate is a plus as it can help with control of the scud population and over feeding the other critters. By nature we all tend to over feed. Scuds will eat the leftovers. If the scud population starts getting to large, as evidenced by seeing too many on plants, cut back on feeding.

When I say decent sized river pebbles for the substrate here is what I mean with a quarter included for size reference. I have plenty of these pebbles and will do a minimum of three inches. Ya, that takes a fair amount of water away from the water column but, for under gravel filtration, and using larger pebbles, three inches is the minimum I would use.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Man, I would LOVE to have a tank with "too many" scuds. Or isopods, or seed shrimp. All of the above have always become snacks within a week or two of introducing fish. But I use sand substrate and don't use UG filter, so that might be my problem. If I ever get to do a trout tank, I visualize an absolutely massive UG filter run with huge powerheads.

 

[jaylach]

Man, I would LOVE to have a tank with "too many" scuds. Or isopods, or seed shrimp. All of the above have always become snacks within a week or two of introducing fish. But I use sand substrate and don't use UG filter, so that might be my problem. If I ever get to do a trout tank, I visualize an absolutely massive UG filter run with huge powerheads.

An advantage I have with this is the main tank population. The Panda Garras are not likely to actively hunt the scuds and, if I go with the ember tetras, the scuds and tetras live in different levels of the water column.

 

[MaloK]

Man, I would LOVE to have a tank with "too many" scuds. Or isopods, or seed shrimp. All of the above have always become snacks within a week or two of introducing fish. But I use sand substrate and don't use UG filter, so that might be my problem. If I ever get to do a trout tank, I visualize an absolutely massive UG filter run with huge powerheads.

You need to create an harbor for them... As simple as a pile of standard coarse aquarium gravel in a corner that you sprinkle with finely powdered food of any kind once in a while.

Add some Bacter AE and you raise the chances.

Snails are really detrimental to any Scuds, Pods or Cods population because they eat their eggs at large. And they all live trough a prolonged static state before becoming active.

But once there's space to lay their eggs and babies in tranquillity they will always be there. Even in a snail ridden tank.

I would think that with a water flow that is not too strong / fast. They will populate the whole UGF really fast.

 

[jaylach]

You need to create an harbor for them... As simple as a pile of standard coarse aquarium gravel in a corner that you sprinkle with finely powdered food of any kind once in a while.

Add some Bacter AE and you raise the chances.

Snails are really detrimental to any Scuds, Pods or Cods population because they eat their eggs at large. And they all live trough a prolonged static state before becoming active.

But once there's space to lay their eggs and babies in tranquillity they will always be there. Even in a snail ridden tank.

I would think that with a water flow that is not too strong / fast. They will populate the whole UGF really fast.

Warning! WARNING! Long post ahead that is largely rambling... Still I think some valid questions are involved...

This MAY be on the long side and I'm sort of rambling a bit. Power heads and the filter plates I decided to go with should be here in two days and I'm sort of anxious. I take forever to decide what I want to order but, once I order, I want it yesterday. Yeppers... I'm still typing below. This WILL be long.

You sound experienced in this and I am not. From my image of the substrate a few posts back did I do proper for the scuds. While I like a natural appearance the scuds were part of why I selected the river pebbles that I did. I almost got smaller pebbles but figured the larger would be better for the scuds. One would think that smaller stones would be better for filtration but I doubt that will be an issue as I'll have the substrate at a minimum of three inches, possibly a bit deeper depending on what the 2 12 pounds bags will cover. Actually the three inches of substrate will look deeper as the depth of stone has to be figured with the filter plates included. Also, if the scuds thrive, they are likely to be a major part of the filtration by eating anything that reaches them.

While a failure with the scuds will not be any sort of disaster I am sort relying on them helping with the Panda Garras. Panda Garras are VERY sensitive to nitrates and a level of even 20 PPM can easily be fatal. By eating wasted food and dead-fall from plants I hope that they help with nitrate control. Of course regular decent water changes will still be needed.

I've been considering Ember Tetras as a bright shoaling fish but my expected water flow is borderline as to their real comfort zone so I may rethink the shoal but I DO want one.

As to bottom feeders I don't really think I need any as the scuds and Pandas will take care of things. I won't be going with any corys or plecos. I don't consider Pandas true bottom feeders as they will feed anywhere and pretty much anything. Actually something that is not widely know about Pandas is that they are one of those rare fish that will chow down on black beard algae.

I have minor concerns as to the power heads I ordered as they only got 4.1 stars on reviews but I think that is buffered by the fact that there are zero 1 or 2 star reviews. All reviews are 3-5 stars. There are a couple of things that I DO really like about the design the first being that they hang on the top edge of the tank instead of relying on suction cups that never seem to hold anyway. Another thing I like is that the heads have snap-off intake cones. If the water flow ends up higher than I end up wanting I can just put a couple of sterile cotton balls in the cone to hinder the intake. This would also act as a sort of pre-filter. With the heads being hang-on it would be a simple matter to change out the cotton balls when doing water changes.

I am also a little concerned about the tank I'll be using. It will be my first store bought rimless tank I've ever used. Way back when I built some small tanks in the 5-10 gallon range but still reinforced the corners so they were still pretty much rimed. I did a 2 day leak test in my bathtub on the new tank with no leaks but still wonder... Since the tank is solid with a glass thickness of almost 1/4 inch it seems that this is just about overkill for a 21 gallon tank. Actually just looked back at the specs for the tank and the glass is 6mm/0.23622 inch; Might as well be 1/4 inch. In relation to the tank volume of 21 gallons the glass thickness seems pretty high which gives more adhesive surface. Do I have any reason to be concerned that the tank is rimless?

Will probably be back tomorrow with more rambling... I just don't wait well when I'm ready to do something...

 

[MaloK]

Yes, it was a really good idea to choose a substrate on the larger side and deep enough so the scuds can circulate in it without being to accessible to predators. On the other hand they are not really going to help with nitrate besides producing more rapidly as they break matter down faster.

The powerheads you ordered don't have a flow control ? I would think it should.

I don't have any concern with a rimless tank as long as it's seating on good quality leveling mat. And I think that you are going to be very happy with your choice. I always consider "over built" as a quality.

 

[jaylach]

Yes, it was a really good idea to choose a substrate on the larger side and deep enough so the scuds can circulate in it without being to accessible to predators. On the other hand they are not really going to help with nitrate besides producing more rapidly as they break matter down faster.

The powerheads you ordered don't have a flow control ? I would think it should.

I don't have any concern with a rimless tank as long as it's seating on good quality leveling mat. And I think that you are going to be very happy with your choice. I always consider "over built" as a quality.

I thought that the scuds eating anything that hits the substrate might cause less nitrates due to reduced ammonia production due to rot.

Duh! Yes, the power heads DO have flow control.

.......includes flow control as well as a venture aeration.......

 

[MaloK]

Amphipods, as crustaceans, primarily excrete nitrogenous waste in the form of ammonia and use oxygen, a lot of it.

 

[Back in the fold]

From the little I’ve read on scuds I think that with your coarse gravel you’ll always have some scuds in there . Apparently they can swim really fast too . I have a hunch that some will get under the filter plates and make themselves a little haven down there .

 

[jaylach]

LOL! Sounds like I know a lot less about scuds than I actually know.

 

[MaloK]

Also another hack I found lately, People uses box filters

Remove the cover, fill with ceramics or lava rock then cover the top with plants instead of the plastic grid.

It draws particles from the water into the plants then the substrate. A little like a boxed UGF, they become beautiful. And provide really good bio and nutrients filtration.

 

[Back in the fold]

Also another hack I found lately, People uses box filters

Remove the cover, fill with ceramics or lava rock then cover the top with plants instead of the plastic grid.

It draws particles from the water into the plants then the substrate. A little like a boxed UGF, they become beautiful. And provide really good bio and nutrients filtration.

I really like that idea !

 

[jaylach]

I REALLY like that box filter trick. There are actually a lot of little tricks one can do. For instance I think that we will all pretty much agree that suction cups for heaters and such are not worth their weight in garbage. I no longer even use them for my heater. I like to mount a heater horizontal for more convection to disperse the heat. I just use plastic wire ties to strap to my air risers. One of the reasons I ordered the power heads I did is that they don't use cups but hang from the top edge of the tank. I'll just need to extend the risers to match where the heads hang.

 

[MaloK]

"Secession cups".

They are a world on themselves. But a good razor blade scrape over the area in question before sticking and a little gasket lubricant...

They force me to use a pointy tool each time I have to remove them even after months.

If they are too stiff and look like a funnel that wont stay in place, use a coffee mug, fill it with boiling water then stick the cup to the bottom, without too much pressure and let it cool out...

Give them a try after that.

 

[jaylach]

Rest of stuff should be here tomorrow so I'm now going through the 'pre-build' anxieties. LOL! I'm not good at waiting...

One of the build decisions is if I will use a piece of deco that has been in the old cube since day one. It is a fake tree trunk that actually looks pretty decent. If I use the trunk I probably have all the real wood I need. If I don't use it I'll need more wood, probably spider wood.

Here is the trunk pictured below. At first I had no intention of using but now I'm not sure. I'll just have to try with and without to see what I like. One advantage is that it is fairly large and I'll be doing a pretty fast water flow for the Panda Garras. The trunk could act as a 'flow break' giving a more calm area for whatever shoaling group I end up with. Right now Ember Tetras are the front runners for shoaling but that may change. They are pretty but not really all that colorful except for being red. I think I may prefer something with more variety as to color but still small, an inch max mature. I have to keep them small as I will be pushing the bio load a bit. With two air risers being power heads and two air I see no oxygen level issues as there should be plenty of surface agitation. If I can aim one of the power heads with aeration at the trunk I could also see it possible that the bubbles hitting the trunk breaking the surface tension of the bubbles giving more direct oxygen release. Not really sure if that thought is viable. I just know that with the Pandas and scuds I will need a lot of oxygen infusion. With my planned setup I don't expect an issue with this.

Here is the trunk... As an aside I will be SO happy to be rid of the clown puke gravel! Not even sure why I ended up using the crud but, once I did, I just didn't see breaking down the tank to change.

Here is an Ember Tetra. I like them but can easily see them ending up being boring. Any ideas as to a shoaling fish that is more vibrant as to colors and also an inch max? I'm open to suggestions and they don't need to even be Tetras, just small and need to like pretty soft water.