Population Skeptic

[baker360360]

Ok just joined this site today. Been keeping fish for about 12-16 weeks. Didn't do any research before buying aquarium or fish. Since setting up I have roamed the web in search for info. And asked dozens of questions on yahoo answers. All my problems and needed advice we met and now my tank is looking stunning.

The only thing I have come across that I just can't get my head around is this whole thing about over stocking. I've been told/ seen post that 6 neon tetra are on the boarder of over populating a 55l tank. Now 1, how can such a small group of tiny creatures over populate that much room? It just doesn't seem right. And 2 all these rules about inches per so many litres. Or inches per surface area. This seems to be wrong. Because I in fact have a 55l aquarium that holds 6 neons, 2 angles, 1 glass cat, 1 stripe cat, 4 kuhli loaches, 1 plec (some kind if dwalf breed) . All fish have room to swim and my water conditions according to all the king British water test kits I use show perfect water conditions. The biggest fear I have with my tank is angles may one day get a tast for neons. I really hope not.


So my conclusion referring to my own experience is that if filter and maintenance is maintained at high levels then you can get much more out of the tank than these black and white rules.

 

[ncguppy830]

 that tank is way overstocked a pair of angelfish min is a 20 gallon and 6 neons need alot of space to swin also the pleco cannot be in that tank there is no dwarf breed otherwise it would be way more popular. And i think the black and white rules were quitwe clear they need swimming space, sure a person could survive in a closet but is that truly living. sorry if i sound bashful at all
welcome to the forum
yahoo awnsers isnt the best resource place

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Can't get my head around why I can't keep six human babies in my closet and raise them into fine healthy adults is about the best way I can answer your question. I mean they all fit in there fine, I can feed them and change them.......
 
If you were one of the more accomplished angel breeders on the planet, you might be able to pull off a pair of angels in your tank- with nothing else in it.
 
You apparently are not aware of exactly what fish you have from how you describe them. So I do not think you really have any idea how big they will get, what size tanks they need, what water parameters they prefer. What fish they may or ay not be kept with.
 
I can tell you this. If you do not make some drastic changes you will not have to worry about the angels eating the neons as the odds are you will have no fish left somewhere between 6 and 12 months from now.
 
The inch per rule only applies to slim bodied fish like the neons, One adult angel is equal to about 20 neons in terms of the load on a tank. Plecos, of any size, are waste machines.
 
And if years and tanks counts for knowledge- about 13 years for me and currently 20 tanks.

 

[Wills]

First of all they are not black and white rules... but your stocking is plainly bad.
 
You say you have been keeping fish for 12-16 weeks and you now have an informed opinion on your tank? I consider 3 months (or 12 weeks) as a mild probation period for adding new fish... The people that advise beginners such as your self on tanks have been keeping fish for years and can draw on their own experience and mistakes to help people not to do the same. I my self have been keeping fish for about 9 years yet there are still many people much my senior that can cover vast vast areas of the hobby in much more detail than I can.
 
I do agree with you that 6 neon tetras will not over stock a 55 litre tank though, but you do have an issue with your Angels - to get an idea of their adult size think of a large adult mans hand outstretched and now put that against your tank - that is the potential that your Angels have to grow to.
 
Really for me, your tank should only have the Neon Tetras and the Khuli Loaches in then potentially some kind of small lone feature fish but thats an other conversation.
 
Wills

 

[baker360360]

Thanks for the advice guys.

See I became skeptic purely because of tons of people saying that the amount of fish will cause dangerous water pollution levels ( ammonia, nitrate,nitrite) that are unavoidable . Well I avoided them.

But I didn't know about them needing such a large amount of room to swim. And although they have room I do see your point about living in a closet. (Always learning)

And to another reply about angles I have seen adults and yes they are massive, when getting them I had already thought and planned about getting a juwel corner probably 180. So fingers crossed real soon that will be here cycling.

 

[ncguppy830]

thanks for respecting our opinions were here to help

 

[kevingrods]

my suggestion is to buy a bigger tank!  who only wants one tank?  I have 5

 

[fluttermoth]

Hmmm...

A few of points I'd like to make.

First of all, I've never seen such poor fishkeeping 'advice' being given out as I have on Yahoo answers.

Second. All the things you mention (inches per gallon, cms per litre, surface area) are a guideline, not hard and fast or fixed in stone.

Next. When calculating stocking levels, you must use the eventual, adult, size of the fish, not the size it is now. If you use the size of the fish are they are when you buy them (and most fish in shops are juveniles) they won't have enough room to grow properly and end up stunted, which is very unhealthy for them and can lead to all sorts of deformities and a significantly shortened lifespan, as well as a raft of stress related illnesses (ich, fin rot, fungus).

Whilst I agree that six neons wouldn't overstock an average 55l tank, keeping an angel, which could grow to a foot tall, in one is a whole different ball game. Your glass cat is also going to suffer, as they do not do well alone and often starve themselves to death in smaller groups; they really need to be in a shoal of around a dozen; even if you see it eating, it may not be enough

I really hope your striped cat is not a striped talking catfish aka raphael cat, Platydoras armatulus, as that will grow to a very chunky six to eight inches.

I'm not wanting to 'have a go', but I think your ideas on stocking need some serious looking at, or you're going to end up with a collection of very sick, unhappy fishies.

Edit; I see other members commented first; I had to leave mid-type as my 5'x2'x2' turned up 

 

[SamB]

 
Should be fine right?

 

[fluttermoth]

Yeah, there is a corollary to the 'inch per gallon' guideline that most people forget to mention when they quote (or use) it.
 
It applies only to slim bodied, tropical fish, that reach an adult SL of three inches or less.

 

[baker360360]

my suggestion is to buy a bigger tank!  who only wants one tank?  I have 5

Looking at juwel trigon 180 (I think that's right ) but It will block the patio doors to the garden and misses isn't happy. Hopefully some new dresses, hair dryer and any thing else she wants will persuade her lol.

 

[kevingrods]

Baker,
 
Do not feel bad, just yesterday  I was at the pet store and someone told me i should get a clown loach for a 36 gallon tank.  They said you only need one and it will be great!  I went with it.  Now Normally I have my i phone and i do research before an impulse buy, but the phone was dead.  I came home with the clown, started to accumulate temperature wise to the tank, then hopped on the chat room and told everyone what i just did. 
 
Come to find out they can grow up to a foot long, i need a minimum of 5! I also found out a solo clown can become become the crazy clown loach.  Bottom line is that  I brought him back a couple hours later and the problem was solved. 
 
The good news for you is that you no longer need the yahoo answers. Me personally I know very little about fish and I have 5 tanks.  I am new to the hobby and  I am learning.  However the people on this forum actually know what they are talking about so my confidence level has increased 10 fold because its like having a bunch of friends just talking about fish.
 
It sounds like you really like the fish you picked out and you know how to keep good water quality with a lot of fish in a small tank.  That's not easy!
 
If i were you,   I would pick a big wall in your house.  Measure it.  Get the biggest tank you can afford, put the coolest decor you can find, cycle that tank and get your little buddies in there so you can watch them grow.  I guarantee not only will your fish be much happier, your happiness will increase, and your friends will know your the coolest person on the block.

 

[baker360360]

Hmmm...
A few of points I'd like to make.
First of all, I've never seen such poor fishkeeping 'advice' being given out as I have on Yahoo answers.
Second. All the things you mention (inches per gallon, cms per litre, surface area) are a guideline, not hard and fast or fixed in stone.
Next. When calculating stocking levels, you must use the eventual, adult, size of the fish, not the size it is now. If you use the size of the fish are they are when you buy them (and most fish in shops are juveniles) they won't have enough room to grow properly and end up stunted, which is very unhealthy for them and can lead to all sorts of deformities and a significantly shortened lifespan, as well as a raft of stress related illnesses (ich, fin rot, fungus).
Whilst I agree that six neons wouldn't overstock an average 55l tank, keeping an angel, which could grow to a foot tall, in one is a whole different ball game. Your glass cat is also going to suffer, as they do not do well alone and often starve themselves to death in smaller groups; they really need to be in a shoal of around a dozen; even if you see it eating, it may not be enough
I really hope your striped cat is not a striped talking catfish aka raphael cat, Platydoras armatulus, as that will grow to a very chunky six to eight inches.
I'm not wanting to 'have a go', but I think your ideas on stocking need some serious looking at, or you're going to end up with a collection of very sick, unhappy fishies.
Edit; I see other members commented first; I had to leave mid-type as my 5'x2'x2' turned up 

Stripe cat may be, have a look, I hope I ain't got a monster on my hands

Baker,
 
Do not feel bad, just yesterday  I was at the pet store and someone told me i should get a clown loach for a 36 gallon tank.  They said you only need one and it will be great!  I went with it.  Now Normally I have my i phone and i do research before an impulse buy, but the phone was dead.  I came home with the clown, started to accumulate temperature wise to the tank, then hopped on the chat room and told everyone what i just did. 
 
Come to find out they can grow up to a foot long, i need a minimum of 5! I also found out a solo clown can become become the crazy clown loach.  Bottom line is that  I brought him back a couple hours later and the problem was solved. 
 
The good news for you is that you no longer need the yahoo answers. Me personally I know very little about fish and I have 5 tanks.  I am new to the hobby and  I am learning.  However the people on this forum actually know what they are talking about so my confidence level has increased 10 fold because its like having a bunch of friends just talking about fish.
 
It sounds like you really like the fish you picked out and you know how to keep good water quality with a lot of fish in a small tank.  That's not easy!
 
If i were you,   I would pick a big wall in your house.  Measure it.  Get the biggest tank you can afford, put the coolest decor you can find, cycle that tank and get your little buddies in there so you can watch them grow.  I guarantee not only will your fish be much happier, your happiness will increase, and your friends will know your the coolest person on the block.

Thanks for advice and vote of confidence.
Sounds a fantastic idea how ever council ain't too keen on knocking down walls lol and the way this house is set up there isn't much room to play with.

 

[fluttermoth]

It certainly looks like one, although I can't be 100% sure from that pic.

 

[baker360360]

It certainly looks like one, although I can't be 100% sure from that pic.

Hard to get a good pic of him as it usually hides all day and active at night, but googled it and it looks like one but much lighter stripes