Plumbing Help Please!

[weezawoo]

I am really wanting to get my tank sorted out but I need to make a decision on plumbing.

Quick background, my tank is 6ft, the 2 holes already there are in the top left and right hand back corners of the glass (not on the bottom). I have opened them up and they are 40mm wide.

I have been to my lfs and he has said it would be much better to run 2 outlet pipes. I am struggling to see the real benefit of this. Basically the tank connectors are going to be £20 each plus then the piping to get both to the sump etc. He said the way he would suggest is just have the water run down the holes (with a mesh cover) which would mean that the water level would be around half an inch if not more below the level of the lid. I don't like how this would look. He suggested getting taps on the pipes near the sump which control the water level or something?

I have been advised by someone else that I could also do a small local weird, which would just be around the hole not the whole height of the tank, working the same as a standard full weir. He said this would let the level be higher as it runs over this into the holes.

My first question (I need to figure it out in parts as I am getting a headache from it all lol) is do I really need to run 2 outlets, I am thinking about where to position the inlet back in from the sump as won't it pretty much be going straight back out one of the holes? Also how will this effect the return pump? Does it all depend on how well the return pump is working, i.e if it pumps 2000lph this will mean 2000lph goes out of the holes (theoretically sounds right) just I have read about people getting the right balance, I just can't understand how there would be problems considering the rise of the water from the sump should make more flow out so a constant flow system.

Sorry for the ramblings and sorry if it doesn't make sense or it is stupid obvious problems!

Thanks

 

[Uriel]

Building a small wier around the holes is no big drama. I used glass but a lot of people use acrylic and yes the water level is then dictated by the top of the wier. You need to build a big enough wier for the power of your return pump if you want it quiet. You could even make it a trianglular prism if you want to keep it's foot print in tank as small as possible.

Main advantage of 2 inlets is if one gets blocked by a rogue snail say, you have the other as backup. He may also be suggesting that one outlet could feed the skimmer side of a sump and the other side could feed a refugium. Due to it being preferable to have low flow in refugium you could then put a tap on refugium pipe to reduce the flow so 80% went to skimmer and 20% went to refugium. With this design you then have the return pump in the middle.

Yes as long as your pipe work is big enough the flow is dictated by your return pump.


Personally i would keep it simple if you aren't worried about noise. Which i think you said in the past you weren't ?

 

[weezawoo]

No he definately meant 3 sections of the sump, first for the pipes bringing water from the tank, then middle for 'bits' then last for the return pump.

He just said that it is more beneficial to have 2 outlets from the tank to the sump for the water flow.
I don't actually know what the pump is. Its an Eheim but came with the tank so not sure on the model or the flow rate.

How would I determine the size I would need to make the weir, would I need to know the lph rate of the pump?

Do you have just a small weir on your tank then? If you do any chance you could post a pic as I haven't seen any of an actual tank with a small weir only diagrams or the standard weir!


Thanks!!!

 

[woody88]

I'll leave this one with uriel I think! Sumps aren't my strong point! lol

 

[weezawoo]

They aren't mine either! I got really annnoyed at one point (as per a previous thread haha)
Trying to get my head around it all, plumbing is annoying me most! lol

 

[Uriel]

Above

Front

There not fantastic pictures but might give you some idea. My wier is deeper then yours would need to be as i have 2 pipes 1 higher up than the other for my plumbing. My plumbing is slightly more complicated than yours would need to be neccesarily. Like i said if i wasn't worried about noise I would have gone with a triangle.

Yeah the size of your wier is based on LPH of pump. For me 3000lph was a 12inch edge to the wier. So mine is a 5" by 7" top.

 

[weezawoo]

Fantastic, thank you for the pics! Really helpful!

Is that egg crate stuff on the top of it?

Im not overly bothered about noise. I have enough from my freshwater tank atm so should be ok

This is the pump if you know what it might be

 

[Uriel]

It's an eheim universal. possibly a 1260 although that part is a complete guess. Has it got a any numbers on it ?

Yeah the egg crate will eventually be expanded to having a proper wier comb and may even cover sides of wier with acrylic but for the time being the egg crate functions to stop anything getting in there and i have other parts of the project that are taking priority like trying to break down an old tank to cut it up to use as a sump. Personally i would not reccomend doing this

The noise issue is relative. If your not that bothered then don't go out of your way to stop noise but then where it's not inconvient to I would make it as quiet as possible because youd be surprised at just how much noise it can make. Image of my plumbing below just to give you some idea's.

Plumbing

 

[weezawoo]

Ah ok! I was looking at weir combs and they have them in the lfs so will get one of them lol

Nope no numbers at all, you would think there would be something somewhere!

On the right hand pipe, what is the part at the top? If you don't mind me asking? Just wondering the purpose it has.

I have been tryig to fid some cheaper tank connectors as thought £20 was quite a lot, but cheapest is £15 onlie and got to make sure I can find the right pipe to fit!

If I had on my tank, one hole higher, so say add a 90degree bend on the end so water would come from higher, would this help at all?

 

[Uriel]

Basically the left pipe is a syphon. It is always under water and filled with water. This makes it run silently as most of the noise is created by air. It carries 99% of the water and has a ball valve so i can set it up to run at the same speed as the return pump. The line on the right is a durso standpipe. It takes any overflow from the syphon and is also a back up should anything happen to block the syphon. Durso standpipes let air in at the top of the pipe through a small hole which again helps to reduce noise.

I got my pipe work from coral culture and it was very quick. I've read on forums of people using stuff from b and q but wasn't worth the risk to me.

 

[weezawoo]

oooo ok. I will have look at these bits and pieces tomorrow, gotta go sleep now as got an ill BF seen people mention ball valves but not had a clue what they were actually for!

Thank you for your help!!!

Oh I also was advised about coral culture on another forum but I wanted to get it from lfs if possible as he could explain it to me in person! But as its cheaper online I will prob order online and get some helpful people to advise me

 

[weezawoo]

I have been looking on coralc culture at some bits and pieces for the plumbing. They seem to have some good prices, the only problem is I don't know what bits go with which if that makes sense. There are 2 types of tank connectors and different types of 90degree bends etc. I think I figured that I need their 25mm tank connectors to fit my 40mm holes.

Can you shed any light on this at all?

 

[Uriel]

Yeah 40mm hole, 25mm tank connector is the largest you can get in there. The 2 different types of tank connector one comes with a nut which allows you to screw the pipe in and then unscrew to remove the pipe. the other less expensive type you would have to glue the pipe in situ. For the £2 difference i would go for one with clampng nut.

You just need the basic 90's and T pieces not the screwed ones although you will need to buy a tube or tub of pipe weld(glue).

For my setup i used

2 x 2.4m of pipe
2 x Tank Connectors with clamping nut
8 X 90 bend
1 T piece
1 end cap
1 tub of pipe weld
1 ball valve
2 x pipe brackets.

But depending on what you want and how you want it setup will effect what parts you need.

 

[weezawoo]

Thanks for the reply

I think I am getting it sorted in my head now!! Thats the hardest part!

I was going to solvet weld everything and silicone the bulkheads, is there any benefit to them being able to be screwed off and on? Just to me I would worry the screw in ones would be slightly more risky.
I think I want to set it up with one of my holes having a 90bend on to make it higher than the one on the other side. The lower pipe will have the tap near the bottom to control the flow, mainly because I am worried about the rate of my pump so hopefully this will alow me to adjust it to match.

I guess its trial an error but lets hope it all goes ok!