PLS HELP - Molly upside down, won't move

[teefx2]

Request Help - please could anyone who has rescued a fish fitting below description offer some knowledge? I'm on my last Molly and I would really like to understand what I did wrong.

I believe I have cycled my tank correctly for a week before adding the first set of fish I had, which died within 6 months.

Tank size: 10 gallon
pH: 6.5
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 20
kH: 30
gH: 75
tank temp: 81

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Adult male fish named Paul has been lethargic for 2 days, laying on the bottom of the tank (upright position), not moving, comes up to eat food in the morning. Seems like he was losing weight and barely moving during the day, and since I've lost all of my 3 adult mollies and 2 fry in the past 2 month, I wanted to do something to treat the water and rescue this last one. I did a 25% water change and did not feed him for 48 hours. Additionally, I purchased API General Cure and treated as instructed. That was about 72 hours ago and seemingly he was getting better, was more active and such, but this morning, he was completed flipped upside down on the bottom of the tank. I touched him and he quickly flipped up to come up to the top of the tank to eat. I fed him and went to work. Tonight he is just chilling on the bottom of the tank flipped over still, breathing still. Earlier tonight he would try to come up to the top and looks like he's a bit bloated and his tail has become too heavy for him to use, his fins moving hard to come up and his tail ends up taking him into a vertical position and eventually he kind of gives up and is now laying there, breathing, upside down. He moved a few times all while being belly up. Noticed some clear and stringy discharge coming out of him as well. This morning one of his eye was also bloodshot which was gone by tonight. I panicked and did another water change tonight and added another pack of API medication, same as before.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

25% water change weekly

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Just water primer(1/4 tea spoon each water change as instructed) and aquarium salt (2 table spoon each water change). Recently treated water with API General Cure (48 hours ago).

Tank inhabitants:

Used to have 2 adult mollies, both died a week apart, bought a new molly and that one died a month later, there were 2 fry in the tank but they didn't make it either. Now just this male Lyretail Molly.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Always had fake plants and a house since when the tank was set up in May.

Exposure to chemicals:

None that I know of

Digital photo (include if possible):

 

[Munroco]

It could well be a swim bladder problem which can be caused by constipation. I believe blanched peas are supposed to be good for this but I never managed to persuade any of my fish to eat peas.

 

[Seanthebusdriver]

From your description there could be a number of issues but the one that stands out is the water parameters. In particular Mollies like hard water and yours seems to be very soft. You should aim for a PH of 7.5 to 8.0. A note of caution, don't adjust the PH too quickly as that can cause even grater harm. I'm sure more detailed help will come shortly from somebody who has a good knowledge of Mollies.

 

[TropicalEnthusiast]

To me it sounds like issues with your water. Since you have lost multiple fish, this tells me it's nothing to do with the fish itself. As seen above, Mollies thrive in harder waters so I recommend slowly changing your water parameters.

 

[Munroco]

It would be easier to get rid of the molly than to change water properties. This would be an ongoing thing, not just a one off.

 

[teefx2]

Thanks for all of your input. Really appreciate it. How do you recommend making my water harder? What specifics should I do? I have API PH up water treatment that I've used a few times but the ph level always goes back down to 6.5 so I stopped using it. Thank you all again in advance!! I would really like to save this molly as he's such a fighter. Should I leave him be without feeding for a few days until his belly no longer bloated? This morning he's still breathing belly up...

 

[Essjay]

It's not pH Up you need but something like remineralisation salts that are added to RO water. Increasing the hardness (GH) will also increase the pH. These salts are NOT the kind of salt we add to food, they are something completely different.

But this is not something to undertake unless you understand what you are doing. You would need a GH test kit and at every water change you would have to make up exactly the same strength of salts in the new water or the fish would be stressed by changing GH.



However, a 10 gallon tank is much too small for mollies. Females can grow up to 6 inches. It would be better for the fish if you were to rehome them and replace them with fish that like soft water and would suit a 10 gall tank. There are small species of tetras that could work.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for all of your input. Really appreciate it. How do you recommend making my water harder? What specifics should I do? I have API PH up water treatment that I've used a few times but the ph level always goes back down to 6.5 so I stopped using it. Thank you all again in advance!! I would really like to save this molly as he's such a fighter. Should I leave him be without feeding for a few days until his belly no longer bloated? This morning he's still breathing belly up...

As other members have mentioned, the issue here is almost certainly the soft water. I will try to explain, as there seems to be some confusion with pH and GH/KH.

Water hardness (the GH which means general hardness) is the most critical parameter, more so than pH generally. GH is the amount of "hard" minerals, calcium and magnesium primarily, dissolved in the water. The KH refers to the carbonate hardness or Alkalinity, and for the moment I will leave that or this will really get complex. The pH is related to GH and KH. The pH tends to be higher the harder the water, and lower the softer. A pH below 7.0 is acidic, which tends to be due to softer water, and a pH above 7.0 is "basic" and tends to be related to harder water. This is very general, but sufficient for our discussion.

Your GH of 75, presumably measured as ppm (parts per million, or if it is mg/l it is the same) is quite soft, around 4 dGH. Mollies simply will not last in this water as there is insufficient calcium and magnesium for their physiology; you added salt which is frequently recommended but this is not adequate because the calcium and magnesium are still missing and it is those hard minerals, not salt, that are crucial for mollies. The KH at 30 ppm is low, and this means the pH is not "buffered," so it will naturally lower in the aquarium due to the decomposition of organics over time. This too is very bad for mollies. And here we come to the attempts to raise the pH which you say failed, and that is exactly what should result. The low KH has little to no buffering capacity for the pH, so the pH will lower. When you add chemical substances to increase the pH, they quickly raise it but over about 24 hours it will fall back to where it naturally occurs because there is no buffering in the water; this fluctuation is very stressful on all fish. I leave the pH alone, and let it stay where it naturally wants to be.

Soft water fish will be ideal in your water. With a 10g tank you don't have much room though, so this has to be thought out in advance--and for example, mollies even in harder water would not work in a 10g as they grow too large--but I will leave suitable fish for another discussion as I want to come back to your question about making the water hard.

Increasing the dissolved mineral to raise the GH and KH is the only way to raise the pH, as the three are related. This can be done, more easily than lowering the GH/KH/pH with harder water to make it soft, but it does get involved. It would mean no soft water fish, and in a 10g you will have many more options for fish than you will with hard water simply because there are so many more species of soft water fish small enough for a 10g tank. Mollies get too large, so this wouldn't work anyway. It is always wiser to select fish suited to your water; it makes water changes much easier, and aside from the normal weekly partial water change, something may occur down the road requiring larger more frequent water changes, and being able to use tap water is a real blessing, I've been there.

Hope this helps.

Byron.

 

[teefx2]

That's extremely helpful information and thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I was not able to find this info anywhere else on the web so very grateful you are able to help.

One last question, do you think I would need to cycle my tank again after Paul passes or do I just need to do a 25% water change since the water quality isn't bad for soft water fish?

Lastly, what's the best humane way to put Paul out of his misery?

Thank you all again.

 

[Byron]

You're welcome. I see essjay posted concurrently with my typing, and we are on the same page. Finding all this info is possible, but from differing sources and the advantage of a forum is that we can tie all of this together for specific situations/questions.

One last question, do you think I would need to cycle my tank again after Paul passes or do I just need to do a 25% water change since the water quality isn't bad for soft water fish?

No, there is no need for cycling. I would however do a complete water change, right down to the substrate. And clean the filter media. Fill with fresh tap water at the desired temperature, using a good conditioner as usual. Get the filter and heater running, and then add suitable fish. I am assuming you do not have a quarantine tank for new fish, but here since you will be adding the fish to a fish-less tank, and it is only 10g, I wouldn't worry; if something does occur treatment won't be difficult.

Lastly, what's the best humane way to put Paul out of his misery?

I euthanize fish like this, when I see it is terminal and non-treatable under the circumstances, rather than let a fish suffer a slow death. My method is to net the fish out onto a folded-over piece of paper towel on a hard surface, then quickly fold the towel completely around the fish severasl times so it is thick, and give it a few good thumps with your open hand. This kills the fish immediately with no more stress than any fish netted out of water, and you can't be more humane. This is absolutely the quickest and most humane method, bar none.

Byron.

 

[teefx2]

Thank you very much for all of your help. Paul passed away yesterday before I got home. I will be restocking after a good cleaning.