Please HELP!

[Em1ly]

Please help! What is wrong with my geophagus tapajo?? I’ve had him for 3 years, I’ve changed nothing recently and religiously clean my tank, he is the biggest in there but came down this morning to him like this. I’ve medicated the tank with anti ulcer & finrot as recommended by my local fish store but I’m worried as he’s now not eating

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum - really sorry its under such rough circumstances.

Please can you fill us in on some more info such as your tank size, tank mates, can you give us a pic of the whole tank?

I know you've said nothing changed recently but what was the last thing you added to the tank either fish or plants etc.

Can you also give us a run down of your water chemistry like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, gh and kh (or any hardness measure).

My first thoughts are it looks like a wound, possibly a bite that ha become infected or it could be quite fresh? Do you have other cichlids or aggressive fish in the tank? It could also be a wound from sharp decor, do you have any pointy branches etc?

Lastly, which medication are you using now? What brand and product name etc?

Sorry for all the questions but stick with us I reckon we can help you get through this

Wills

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

That's a big ouchy, looks painful and inflamed.

The fish either got attacked by something or got its head stuck under something and has ripped the skin and tissue around the eye, and also damaged the eye.

---------------------
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Medicate if need but try to use something that isn't an antibiotic.

 

[Em1ly]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply!

It’s a 320L tank.

Tank mates - 2 x blood red parrots, 2 x platinum parrots, 1 x Bala 1 x denisen barb 2 x severum (roti and a red spot) and 6 corydora

The last fish I added was my platinums about 5 months ago, nothing since.

Ammonia is zero
Nitrite is zero
Nitrate 0.6
Ph 7.4

I change out my water every week with a python and always treat new water with prime.

I feed frozen bloodworm and cichlid mix and alternate frozen along side tropical pallets.

Medication picture and tank picture attached.

It looks yellow because of the medication.

Thanks so much

 

[Colin_T]

I would put my money on the fish getting caught in the rock on the left.

The fish is really stressed out and staying on the back wall so it can see the other fish. If you have a spare tank, I would move it so it's alone and doesn't feel as stressed out. However, you will have to rearrange the display tank when you add it back in otherwise it might be killed as an intruder.

The tank needs more cover (plants and wood). Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) and Duckweed are good floating plants and the fish will eat them. You can usually grow these plants outside in ponds or plastic containers and add them to the tank each week or when needed.

I would remove the stone ornament on the left due to the possible sharp edges around the holes. You want smooth rocks, driftwood and plants. You can also use clay flowerpots laid on their sides, or upside down with a hole cut in the side of the pot. Pvc pipe can also be used with or without an end cap to make cave like structures for the fish.

The denison barb and bala (silver) shark need to be in groups of at least 6 (preferably 10 or more) of their own kind. The tank isn't big enough for adult bala sharks that can grow to 10-12 inches long.

 

[Wills]

I agree with Colin on a lot of what he said - especially on the level of decor and that rock structure on the left. A big piece of bogwood should fill the tank nicely and you can usually get the big 3-4 foot bits from a Maidenhead for about £50. Worth looking into.

If you are able to set up a hospital tank at all or do you need to keep them in this tank? The best bet would be to keep the water super clean and keep up with water changes. The wound should heal over time - @Colin_T do you think salt would help with this? If that medicine contains malachite green I would probably not use it right now, its a pretty basic and quite heavy handed med, something like Esha 2000 might be a better option and has a good reputation of being quite a light medication on other fish and the filter bacteria. You can get it on Amazon now too so could potentially get it next day. You would need a very big water change with the current meds though to make sure its out of the tank. Possibly pop in some carbon for a day or two before removing it to add the Esha in.

Like Colin said the denison barb and the bala shark could do to be in schools, the bala isnt really feasable in this size tank but the denisons would be - a school of 6-8 of them would look great and they would act as proper dither fish for the cichlids which will help reduce aggression and build their confidence around the tank. I do think changing the scape will really improve the quality of life for the fish in here. Check out this journal from aquabarb as a great example of a cichlid tank, https://www.fishforums.net/threads/big-river-south.470829/page-10 plants with Severums can be hard though so check out a guy called Lee Nutall on YouTube, he keeps central american cichlids which are also hard on plants but his scapes are absolutely perfect.

Wills

 

[Em1ly]

I would put my money on the fish getting caught in the rock on the left.

The fish is really stressed out and staying on the back wall so it can see the other fish. If you have a spare tank, I would move it so it's alone and doesn't feel as stressed out. However, you will have to rearrange the display tank when you add it back in otherwise it might be killed as an intruder.

The tank needs more cover (plants and wood). Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) and Duckweed are good floating plants and the fish will eat them. You can usually grow these plants outside in ponds or plastic containers and add them to the tank each week or when needed.

I would remove the stone ornament on the left due to the possible sharp edges around the holes. You want smooth rocks, driftwood and plants. You can also use clay flowerpots laid on their sides, or upside down with a hole cut in the side of the pot. Pvc pipe can also be used with or without an end cap to make cave like structures for the fish.

The denison barb and bala (silver) shark need to be in groups of at least 6 (preferably 10 or more) of their own kind. The tank isn't big enough for adult bala sharks that can grow to 10-12 inches long.

Thanks for your reply.

I don’t have another tank to put him in unfortunately, do you not think he will make it in there with his injury?

I’ll be honest I’ve hated that corner rock since I bought it 18 months ago but am now scared to remove it as it will hold so much beneficial bacteria, how would I go about taking it out without disrupting the balance??

I will look into the plant suggestion thanks.

My local fish shop said my Bala would do fine in my tank, but I am planning to upgrade in the next 6 months. This is my first aquarium so I am open to learning more about the hobby.

Unless I lose my Geo that is, actually feel like throwing the towel in as it’s really upset me, he’s my favourite and I really don’t want to lose him!

 

[Em1ly]

I agree with Colin on a lot of what he said - especially on the level of decor and that rock structure on the left. A big piece of bogwood should fill the tank nicely and you can usually get the big 3-4 foot bits from a Maidenhead for about £50. Worth looking into.

If you are able to set up a hospital tank at all or do you need to keep them in this tank? The best bet would be to keep the water super clean and keep up with water changes. The wound should heal over time - @Colin_T do you think salt would help with this? If that medicine contains malachite green I would probably not use it right now, its a pretty basic and quite heavy handed med, something like Esha 2000 might be a better option and has a good reputation of being quite a light medication on other fish and the filter bacteria. You can get it on Amazon now too so could potentially get it next day. You would need a very big water change with the current meds though to make sure its out of the tank. Possibly pop in some carbon for a day or two before removing it to add the Esha in.

Like Colin said the denison barb and the bala shark could do to be in schools, the bala isnt really feasable in this size tank but the denisons would be - a school of 6-8 of them would look great and they would act as proper dither fish for the cichlids which will help reduce aggression and build their confidence around the tank. I do think changing the scape will really improve the quality of life for the fish in here. Check out this journal from aquabarb as a great example of a cichlid tank, https://www.fishforums.net/threads/big-river-south.470829/page-10 plants with Severums can be hard though so check out a guy called Lee Nutall on YouTube, he keeps central american cichlids which are also hard on plants but his scapes are absolutely perfect.

Wills

I will take a look at his scapes, thank you so much!

The medication ingredients are attached.

I’ve only been in the game for 3 years and this is the first problem I’ve ever run into so I’m pretty clueless on what to do to be honest. My first thought was obviously to head to my local fish store and this was their recommendation.

 

[Wills]

Thanks for your reply.

I don’t have another tank to put him in unfortunately, do you not think he will make it in there with his injury?

I’ll be honest I’ve hated that corner rock since I bought it 18 months ago but am now scared to remove it as it will hold so much beneficial bacteria, how would I go about taking it out without disrupting the balance??

I will look into the plant suggestion thanks.

My local fish shop said my Bala would do fine in my tank, but I am planning to upgrade in the next 6 months. This is my first aquarium so I am open to learning more about the hobby.

Unless I lose my Geo that is, actually feel like throwing the towel in as it’s really upset me, he’s my favourite and I really don’t want to lose him!

It would be preferable to separate him - its just like us, if you were injured like that you'd want some space to be able to chill out in but hospital tanks are tricky - not a bad idea if you can have a sponge filter in the main tank for when you need to separate. You could also look at a tank divider, again you can get these online they are like a hard mesh panel with suction cups to attach to the glass, just to get him away from the others.

Unfortunately shops are not always the most reliable source of info - Bala Sharks for example can grow to 14 inches, they are a shoaling fish so need to be kept in big groups and they are also a migratory fish so in the wild swim huge distances through the year. By comparison the rest of your fish live pretty marginally against the river bank and some will never leave the same small creek or stream for their entire lives. Bala Sharks are super common in the hobby though so it is hard to stop people being sold them.

In terms of the decor holding bacteria, the vast majority of the bacteria is in your filter. Your tank has a decent number of cichlids but I dont think you are fully stocked bioload wise so I wouldnt worry about replacing it especially if you have the same concerns as us.

Cichlids are amazing fish to keep I kept a tank of them for 8/9 years and had ups and downs, lost pets that I really valued too early but also raised some fish to good ages. With anything like this its a case of learning when things go wrong, you've done fantastically to go through 3 years in the hobby without issues - I know my first three years were nothing like that

I'm not familiar with that brand of meds so can't comment too much, to be fair NT Labs have a good reputation so it could be worth keeping up with. Just for you to monitor over the next few days, healing will look like black edges to the wound and infections (bacterial or fungal) will look white and fluffy. There is a chance he will loose the eye but not 100%, he will be ok without it though as fish don't rely 100% on vision to see things they have sensory pits in their heads and the lateral line down the side.

But in short what to do over the next few days, keep the water as clean as possible, dim the lights a bit to keep them calm, try and get a divider to separate the injured fish from the others and either keep up with this medication or switch to the Esha, I'd probably ignore me and stick with what you have as swapping will take a few days and you will be better off sticking with what you have.

Wills

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Oooh poor baby that looks sore...I've no advice, only sympathy! There's some great advice above, keep this thread updated and we'll help you through it. Don't throw in the towel, we've all hit obstacles and run into drama and lost many a fish. We're all still learning even after many many years fiahkeeping.

 

[Em1ly]

It would be preferable to separate him - its just like us, if you were injured like that you'd want some space to be able to chill out in but hospital tanks are tricky - not a bad idea if you can have a sponge filter in the main tank for when you need to separate. You could also look at a tank divider, again you can get these online they are like a hard mesh panel with suction cups to attach to the glass, just to get him away from the others.

Unfortunately shops are not always the most reliable source of info - Bala Sharks for example can grow to 14 inches, they are a shoaling fish so need to be kept in big groups and they are also a migratory fish so in the wild swim huge distances through the year. By comparison the rest of your fish live pretty marginally against the river bank and some will never leave the same small creek or stream for their entire lives. Bala Sharks are super common in the hobby though so it is hard to stop people being sold them.

In terms of the decor holding bacteria, the vast majority of the bacteria is in your filter. Your tank has a decent number of cichlids but I dont think you are fully stocked bioload wise so I wouldnt worry about replacing it especially if you have the same concerns as us.

Cichlids are amazing fish to keep I kept a tank of them for 8/9 years and had ups and downs, lost pets that I really valued too early but also raised some fish to good ages. With anything like this its a case of learning when things go wrong, you've done fantastically to go through 3 years in the hobby without issues - I know my first three years were nothing like that

I'm not familiar with that brand of meds so can't comment too much, to be fair NT Labs have a good reputation so it could be worth keeping up with. Just for you to monitor over the next few days, healing will look like black edges to the wound and infections (bacterial or fungal) will look white and fluffy. There is a chance he will loose the eye but not 100%, he will be ok without it though as fish don't rely 100% on vision to see things they have sensory pits in their heads and the lateral line down the side.

But in short what to do over the next few days, keep the water as clean as possible, dim the lights a bit to keep them calm, try and get a divider to separate the injured fish from the others and either keep up with this medication or switch to the Esha, I'd probably ignore me and stick with what you have as swapping will take a few days and you will be better off sticking with what you have.

Wills

Thank you so much!

I will rid the damn ornament! I’ll get onto Amazon to look for separators, that’s a great idea! Im 100% going to look into driftwood and look to get more plants!

I’ll do my best to keep it clean for my little (big) guy, he was my first fish and is my beauty!

You’ve been super helpful!

I’ll update pictures once I’ve re scaped, hopefully with a healthy tapajo

Thank you again!

 

[Em1ly]

Oooh poor baby that looks sore...I've no advice, only sympathy! There's some great advice above, keep this thread updated and we'll help you through it. Don't throw in the towel, we've all hit obstacles and run into drama and lost many a fish. We're all still learning even after many many years fiahkeeping.

Thank you so much!

I agree, super supportive advice above! Will keep you updated, hopefully on my guys progress?!

Thanks

 

[Colin_T]

I would take the bala shark back and trade it in for a group of denison barbs but do it after the cichlid has healed/ recovered.

When you do try to catch the shark out, get 2 big nets (10-12 inch fish nets). Have one net against the front of the glass resting on the bottom and use the second net to slowly guide the fish into it.

-----------------
You could add salt instead of the medication, but if you have already started with the medication, keep using it for a week to make sure nothing infects the wound.

 

[Wills]

Thank you so much!

I will rid the damn ornament! I’ll get onto Amazon to look for separators, that’s a great idea! Im 100% going to look into driftwood and look to get more plants!

I’ll do my best to keep it clean for my little (big) guy, he was my first fish and is my beauty!

You’ve been super helpful!

I’ll update pictures once I’ve re scaped, hopefully with a healthy tapajo

Thank you again!

No probs make sure you keep us up to date. If you are struggling to find hardscape locally you can get it online, some good places on ebay and an other online store worth checking out is riverwood aquatics as they sell what you see is what you get wood so you know exactly what you are ordering.

Wills

 

[Em1ly]

I’ve separated him from the others today so will see how he gets on from here.

I’ll check that place out online as am going to re do the tank next weekend, I’m going to get some bogwood in and lots of plants, hopefully when my guy is on the mend

Thanks for the recommendation.