Please Help - My Guppies keep dying

[Byron]

Two things stand out from your first post. GH is one, and the waterchanges/nitrates is the other. While both of these are not likely to kill guppies this rapidly, they certainly do severely weaken the fish internally, making it more susceptible to other issues like disease. The stress caused by soft water and nitrates slowly weakens the fish.

Check the website of your water authority, it may have the GH listd. General hardness or total hardness is what GH is termed. Once we know the number, we can either dismiss or confirm this as one major issue.

Nitrates should be kept well below 20ppm. As you indicate the 40 ppm nitrate does go down below 10, you need to increase the volume of each water change. You cannot change too much water, provided the parameters (these are GH, pH and temperature) are reasonably the same between tank and tap water. A 70-75% water change weekly (at one time) may be all you need. But if nitrates rise above 10 ppm (assuming this is the level after the water change), they should never go any higher over the week before the next W/C; if they do, there is an imbalance in the tank.

 

[GuppyMamma91]

What is your gh? Also, I recommend you get more danios and cory cats because they need schools to thrive

@AdoraBelle Dearheart @Slaphppy7 @Byron so apparently I do have soft water. I’ve used several test strips and they all measure 25/30ppm (which is about a 2dGH I think my kh is at about 180. These aren’t liquid tests so I’ll definitely confirm on Monday when I get the liquid tests in, but two different brands gave me very similar readings I tested my water source and it’s exactly the same. So I guess it’s on to see if there’s something I can do to raise my gh without affecting kh or ph. If not, I guess I won’t be able to keep guppies after all

 

[GuppyMamma91]

Two things stand out from your first post. GH is one, and the waterchanges/nitrates is the other. While both of these are not likely to kill guppies this rapidly, they certainly do severely weaken the fish internally, making it more susceptible to other issues like disease. The stress caused by soft water and nitrates slowly weakens the fish.

Check the website of your water authority, it may have the GH listd. General hardness or total hardness is what GH is termed. Once we know the number, we can either dismiss or confirm this as one major issue.

Nitrates should be kept well below 20ppm. As you indicate the 40 ppm nitrate does go down below 10, you need to increase the volume of each water change. You cannot change too much water, provided the parameters (these are GH, pH and temperature) are reasonably the same between tank and tap water. A 70-75% water change weekly (at one time) may be all you need. But if nitrates rise above 10 ppm (assuming this is the level after the water change), they should never go any higher over the week before the next W/C; if they do, there is an imbalance in the tank.

Thanks! My nitrates usually only spike to 40 when a fish dies, so I think now that I know I have soft water I should be able to keep them lower than 10 consistently. I made the terrible assumption that since I have a higher ph my water was hard

 

[Rocky998]

Thanks! My nitrates usually only spike to 40 when a fish dies, so I think now that I know I have soft water I should be able to keep them lower than 10 consistently. I made the terrible assumption that since I have a higher ph my water was hard

But hey, for soft water there are a TON of choices for fish. There are ways to raise GH but I'm not too experienced with that. I THINK you can use calcium blocks or baking soda, but I am not sure on this.

 

[Essjay]

Calcium (limestone, coral etc) does raise GH, but it only adds calcium, not magnesium which is the other hardness mineral. If you want to keep only hard water fish there are products which provide the correct minerals. With these, the minerals must be added to the new water at every water change before it is added to the tank. Some products raise the hardness slightly, others like Rift Lake cichlid salts can raise it a lot.
If you decide to do this, you would need to experiment in a bucket to work out how much of the products need to be added to each bucketful of water to get the GH you want.


Baking soda only raises KH. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. The bicarbonate part is KH. But GH is calcium and magnesium, and baking soda doesn't contain these.

 

[a guppy fan]

I'd look into the GH issue for sure, it might be contributing/causing, and it's best to know what GH your water is anyway, so you know what type of fish to get it the future.

Can you snag some photos of the cories please so we can make sure of the species? We'd also want to know the GH and the species before recommending getting anymore, since not all cories can handle hard water, and livebearers like guppies and platies need hard water.

There is some overlap in terms of GH with some species of cory though, so we can give better advice once we know those things

As for guppies - where are you getting them from? I started with guppies myself, and going to copy/paste something I wrote to someone else here the other day;


"They seem to be a weaker fish in general (Bettas) - like guppies, the ones I used to keep. They broke my heart a lot too, because no matter what I did, the first trios and pairs of pet store guppies just kept dying. Perfect tank parameters, lots of live plants and doing everything I could to save them... it was only when I came here I learned that pet store guppies are no longer the robust, hardy, easy beginner fish they always had the reputation for being. Now being mass produced in fish farms abroad, often using sea water to save money, so the fish were raised in brackish water and had to adapt to freshwater when shipped here - frequently infested with various diseases and carrying heavy worm burdens... not being bred with health and longevity in mind. I was warned about pet store guppies, that if I got them, to worm them in quarantine, and not to expect too much, no matter how much I tried. That if you could get some fry from them before they died, at least the fry would be hardier.

Stuff I wish I had known before I lost many guppies, feeling like a fish murderer and that I shouldn't be in the hobby!"

Pet store mutt guppies are often weak, diseased and unhealthy long before you get hold of them. Always quarantine!! Especially livebearers. Be careful of the source too. Check the whole tank when you're looking for guppies, any that have damaged fins, look skinny and listless, washed out and pale, gasping at the surface, fungus or white spot, or any deaths - don't buy any from that tank. Try to discreetly find out whether the store also keeps the tanks on a shared water filtration system, because those allow disease to spread like wildfire.

If you rule out a problem with your GH, and it turns out to be suitable for livebearers, with all other water conditions good (zero ammonia or nitrites, low nitrates) then the problem is likely to the guppies themselves I'm afraid. For decades they had a reputation for being a hardy, almost unkillable beginner fish. But they're not any more I'm afraid.

Guppies are farmed in regions that keep them in brackish water, so disease is a possibility due to stress

 

[GuppyMamma91]

Calcium (limestone, coral etc) does raise GH, but it only adds calcium, not magnesium which is the other hardness mineral. If you want to keep only hard water fish there are products which provide the correct minerals. With these, the minerals must be added to the new water at every water change before it is added to the tank. Some products raise the hardness slightly, others like Rift Lake cichlid salts can raise it a lot.
If you decide to do this, you would need to experiment in a bucket to work out how much of the products need to be added to each bucketful of water to get the GH you want.


Baking soda only raises KH. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. The bicarbonate part is KH. But GH is calcium and magnesium, and baking soda doesn't contain these.

Thanks! All the fish I have would do better in harder water so I definitely want to stay that route if I can. I’m going to see what my options are that I can obtain locally this afternoon.

 

[Byron]

Thanks! All the fish I have would do better in harder water so I definitely want to stay that route if I can. I’m going to see what my options are that I can obtain locally this afternoon.

Who told you this? The cories are very soft water fish, the danios are primarily soft but can manage in the moderate rang, and the butterfly loach (assume this is the Hillstream Loach) the same. Raising the GH is therefore going to affect these fish a bit, depending upon how hard it gets.

BTW, the loach is another issue. This fish need a good water current from the filter, and cooler temperatures.

Back to the GH issue...the only safe way to deal with this is either use a calcareous substrate, or use rift lake cichlid salt mixes. Given the cories I would not use a calcareous substrate. As for the "salt" mix, this is not common salt (sodium chloride) but the salts of minerals primarily calcium and magnesium. Keep in mind that you need to prepare this water outside the aquarium for every water change. It is not a matter of stirring the mineral salts into the tank water. This makes water changes more involved, but that is your call. Except some of these fish are better off with the present water.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Who told you this? The cories are very soft water fish, the danios are primarily soft but can manage in the moderate rang, and the butterfly loach (assume this is the Hillstream Loach) the same. Raising the GH is therefore going to affect these fish a bit, depending upon how hard it gets.

BTW, the loach is another issue. This fish need a good water current from the filter, and cooler temperatures.

Back to the GH issue...the only safe way to deal with this is either use a calcareous substrate, or use rift lake cichlid salt mixes. Given the cories I would not use a calcareous substrate. As for the "salt" mix, this is not common salt (sodium chloride) but the salts of minerals primarily calcium and magnesium. Keep in mind that you need to prepare this water outside the aquarium for every water change. It is not a matter of stirring the mineral salts into the tank water. This makes water changes more involved, but that is your call. Except some of these fish are better off with the present water.

While I agree with almost everything, of course! You know @Byron how much I respect you, and that you know so much more than I. But the cories OP has, corydoras aeneus, are one of the few species of cories that don't require very soft water. While most do of course, @CassCats helped me to research different cory species that have a wider range for GH, since I'm in a hard water area, and love my cories.

Luckily, corydoras aeneus (Bronze cories) have a range of 36- 268ppm GH, according to Seriously Fish. Much harder than most cory species.

Since guppies have a hardness range of : 143 – 536 ppm, also according to Seriously Fish, there can be some overlap there! I've kept them together too, but my water is within the ranges for both.

@GuppyMamma91 , Seriously Fish is a very well respected source of information about the requirements of different species! Always recommend typing "Seriously Fish Guppies" or whatever species you're looking into, into google and checking what requirements they have. There's so much conflicting and confusing info available online, but Seriously Fish is thoroughly researched and give into about tank size, water parameters, whether they can live with other fish etc, really useful stuff.


Yours are this species, @GuppyMamma91 , yours are just an albino colour mutation of the same species, so you can get bronze cories to keep them company, or other albino corydoras aeneus - should your water end up in the hardness range that's acceptable for both the guppies and the cories. They're a very sociable species, so if your water ends up being harder than they find acceptable, might be better to return or rehome the cories. But if you keep them, and the water ends u within their range, they'd really appreciate some friends of the same species! They do best in groups of six or more, and you'll see much more natural, playful, clownish behaviour from them when in a bigger group too.

The other essential thing to know about cories is that they really need some sand substrate. Ideally, the whole tank would have a fine sand substrate (natural colours, not brilliant white or dark, dyed black), because they filter feed from sand, and gravel poses some risks to them, both in terms of damaging their delicate facial barbels, and in harbouring nasty bacteria.

In this video, you can see in slow motion how the cory is filtering through the sand for food, expelling the sand out through his gills. That's why we urge fine, smooth grained sand, so they can do this, and not risk damage to their delicate gills;

But you can also compromise, especially since it's a new tank, and merely add a fine sand "beach" to at least 1/3 - 1/2 of the tank. It can be a bit of a hassle to keep the two substrates separated, but it's possible, and means you can drop the cory food on the beach section of the tank, to allow them to express their full natural behaviours.

This compromise is how I've wound up keeping my Pygmy Corydoras, here, and it's working well enough to have them breeding like mad

 

[Byron]

I was being very general on the cories, water, etc, perhaps too general. The main point I wanted to get across was that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the water for some of the fish. It would be easier to stay with soft water fish and avoid the hassle. The cories will likely be better in soft water. Increasing the GH is not easy, and there is no need for the soft water fish. I do not know the knowledge level of GuppyMomma, but from the posts I am assuming she is relatively new to the hobby, so staying with fish suited to the water will be more likely to succeed as opposed to starting to make life complicated with adjusting parameters every time.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I was being very general on the cories, water, etc, perhaps too general. The main point I wanted to get across was that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the water for some of the fish. It would be easier to stay with soft water fish and avoid the hassle. The cories will likely be better in soft water. Increasing the GH is not easy, and there is no need for the soft water fish. I do not know the knowledge level of GuppyMomma, but from the posts I am assuming she is relatively new to the hobby, so staying with fish suited to the water will be more likely to succeed as opposed to starting to make life complicated with adjusting parameters every time.

Oh for sure, I agree!

I just wanted guppymamma to know that if she really wants to keep these specific fish she has now, that there's some wriggle room there.

But I totally agree, adjusting the GH sounds really difficult, and it's much easier to look for species that will work with the water she has now. Even really experienced keepers often struggle with adjusting things like GH, and an unstable tank with swinging, changing parameters is even worse than keeping them in the "wrong" sort of water.

@GuppyMamma91 I'm sorry if your heart is set on guppies But in the long run, you really are lucky to have softer water! There are like, four or five types of fish that thrive in hard water, and thousands that need soft! Most fishkeepers desperately wish for soft water, and those in hard water areas (like me) who want species other than livebearers, cichlids or rainbowfish, either have to put up with not having much choice in the fish we keep, or looking into expensive and complicated RO systems and the like.

It may not feel like it now, but if you embrace the water you have now, the options in terms of fish you can keep are opened wide for you! And won't involve having to delve into complicated chemistry to make sure the tank is stable. I would kill to have your water! Well, maybe not kill. Perhaps maim...