Please Help Me Help My Plec

[CEB]

Hi, newbie here. Looks like a good forum.

I need some help please. Here's a lot of info to give you the best chance of helping me.

I've lost two or three Plattys in the last few weeks, without apparent illness, they just became listless and died. My concern now is for my (approx) 8 year old Plecostomus. He/she isn't feeding much, and flicks up at the top of the tank carrying air down in its mouth. Yesterday, I noticed he has what looks like a red rash on his underside. I attach a picture, sorry about the poor quality, but I needed low resolution to fit on the board, so I used my phone.

Water parameters: Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrate 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm. pH 7.2, temp 25 deg C, Hardness - very hard (off the scale) - test kits are old though, except pH which is new.
Water changes 30% once a month - I know!
Tank mates are 12 or so red-eye tetras, 3 cherry barbs, one platty, 4 cardinal tetras
Tank size 250-300 litres (approx)
No new fish added since the Plattys in about September

The tank usually takes care of itself and is very stable. About 4 years old. Good undergravel filtration, and a small box filter (powered).

I have had more algea than usual lately, perhaps because of the inactive Plecostomus, perhaps not?

I've been very slowly reducing the pH from 7.4 (we have alkaline tap water).

Any ideas please?

 

[WILDER]

Sadly it look like septicemia to me.Not the writer of this information below.
Septicemia



Symptoms:

Fish may have reddening at fin bases, blood streaks throughout the fins and body, small hemorrhages around the eyes. Dull listless behavior and lack of appetite may also be present.



Cause:

Systemic bacterial infection caused by various bacteria, including Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio. The illness is often brought on by poor water quality or as a result of parasitic infestations or other infections. These bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage cause hemorrhaging and consequently leakage of body fluids into the abdomen, which may lead to Dropsy.



Treatment:

Water conditions must be improved for all fish in the tank, regardless of how many fish are infected. Check your water’s Treat with Kanacyn or Tetracycline as well as with a medicated food if the fish will eat. If parasites are suspected, all the fish in the tank should be treated with antiparasitic medication. Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.

Not the writer of this information
Septicemia- A condition where bacteria gains entry into the fish's body through wounds or the stomach. The bacteria can cause failure of the internal organs, damage to body tissue, blood vessels, and result in recognizable symptoms. This often results in internal bleeding, due to the fluids filling the fish's abdomen. Dropsy may occur as a result. The problem with this type of situation is that the bacteria is present inside the fish and safe from the antibiotics you would place in the water. It could be the result of another infection or caused from dirty water. Symptoms: Clamped fins, bulging eyes, red bellies, eroding, reddened fins, lack of appetite, and fish showing signs of being sluggish or exhibiting sluggish behavior. Treatment: It is best to feed the fish antibiotics rather than using the kinds you place directly into the water. Placing the ill fish in a hospital tank is advised while administering treatment. Check your local petstore for some good medicated food or check for antibiotics if necessary. Septicemia is fatal if not treated immediately!

 

[Durbkat]

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! That sure is a bad case of septicemia I've never seen a common pleco with its body compltey white. How long has it been like that?

 

[CEB]

Thanks for the quick repsonses. I did suspect septicemia, but only from what I've read here today.

The photo makes him look worse than he is. He has always been a pale brown underneath. How long he's had the red rash, I don't know. The tank's in the dining room which is seldom used, and he's usually under some bogwood.

My favourite aquarium shop closed. I have a Pets at Home nearby, but they're hopeless. I have a vetinary clinic nearby, or I could travel a little further to get some medication.

Has anyone had any sucesses treating this? If so, any tips? Ive never heard of Kanacyn or Tetracycline; can they be used in a comminuty tank? How do I get medicated food, or do I just soak algae wafers in the medication?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm a noob with 20 years experience!

 

[Durbkat]

They make food that has medicine in it. But tetracyline wipes out the benefical bacteria in your tank so if you could put it in a seperate tank with a filter and air pump and use the tetracycline.

 

[phoenixfire]

defintitly septicemia i lost a plec a while back to this...not a pretty site

 

[reg2k2]

My plec had something quite similar--same location. Actually, it hit him twice, exactly a year apart, which def. had me on alert the following year. Coincidentally, it was January.

Best diagnosis I could come up with was columnaris or Fish TB (not to scare you w/ the TB--I had other things going on w/ my tetras.) At any rate, I figure it was bacterial.

The first time around, I used Melafix...worked a charm. Second time, Melafix healed the wound, but he stopped eating for about two months. At one point, he started consecutively surfacing the water (violently). I just happened across an article at the time which suggested a possible correlation between 'eating bubbles' and internal columnaris. Off to the store for Maracyn I & II, a suggested treatmt for columnaris. While there, I spotted Pimafix..a new product, treats internal bacteria. I grabbed all med's, and proceeded w/ the Pimafix, Melafix combo....it worked.

My plec has a few yrs on him, too...so I can quite imagine your concern.

As suggested, can you quarantine the fish?


Kanacyn is made by Aquatronics...I believe the active ingredient is kanamyacin(sp?). At the time, medicated food was largely unavailable...I was told due to FDA regulations. Adding medication to food is possible, tho I've not done this myself.

 

[WILDER]

For septicemia it depends on your location but you will need a good antibiotic, but best to issolate him as it will wipe the bacteria colony out in the filter.

 

[CEB]

Thanks again.

Reading further on this board, it looks like antibiotics are not available over the counter in the UK. However, Interpet No. 9 Anti Internal Bacteria specifically targets the bacteria responsibe (according to Wilder's 1st post). Since I've had a few other unexplained deaths in recent weeks, I suspect the bacteria is present in the tank, so I'll treat the whole tank rather than set up a hospital tank.

Once the bacteria levels have reduced I'm hoping that the plec will recover naturally, although he looks a little worse today.

For the benefit of others, here's my plan:
I did a 10% water change last night, and a further 20% this morning (to dilute the Interpet General Tonic I put in 5 days ago).
I removed my carbon filter medium.
I've used one dose of Interpet No. 9 Anti Internal Bacteria today.
I've increased airation to the max.
I'll add Aquarium Salt to the recommended levels over the next day, as this may have some beneficial effect on tissue regeneration.
In 4 days, I'll administer the 2nd dose of No. 9 (as per instructions).

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Sincere thanks to all for the advice.

 

[WILDER]

Be careful with the salt as plec don't tolerate it with being scaless, good luck.

 

[CEB]

Ah! Thanks for the heads-up.

I've put about 1/4 of the recommended dose of salts in already. I'll stop there. I've been a bit nervous about adding salt. It just doesn't feel right. Especially as all I could get was "Doc Wellfish", which doesn't sound professional enough to me.

 

[WILDER]

Never heard of that make.

 

[CEB]

Another quality product from Pets at Home.

 

[WILDER]

I find interpet general tonic salt quite good.

 

[CEB]

Do you mean the liquid No 5 Liquisil General Tonic? I didn't know that contained salt. There's nothing on the box about being careful about adding this and salt.

I was trying to get Aqualibrium. I think that's Interpet's brand of salt.

Anyway, here's an update on the plec. The red marks don't look any worse, but he now has a swollen stomach (dropsy, I think), which is cause by the same bacteria, and treated by the same treatment. Fingers crossed.