Please Help Me Figure Out This Mystery/mess

[karin]

Okay, I'm struggling to understand what is going wrong here so maybe I can adjust things to optimize my tank environment. Here is the story... long but necessary you get the whole picture..

I have a 60 gallon tall tank (48 x 12 x 24 Height) and a 2215 Eheim Classic canister filter. The tank was cycled March 26th. My water stats have been absolutely consistent at Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 40-80, Ph 7.6, using API Liquid test kit. I test daily if not twice a day. With test strips I measure general hardness at 60-120ppm and carbonate hardness at 80-120 ppm. Temp is constant at 25.5 C or 78 F.

I added 3 congo tetras and an angel fish on March 26 after a 90% water change with dechlor. I added 4 albino cories on March 28. On March 31, I did a 30 % water change with dechlor and planted the tank with a low light package of plants, all common nothing strange. On April 2, the angel started gasping for air at the top and losing energy, stopped eating. On April 3, I added two borelli apistogramma and two cacatuoides apistogramma and one BN pleco (came in the mail). The angel died on April 3. IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL THESE FISH ARE AROUND ONE (1) INCH LONG EXCEPT FOR ONE CORY AT 3 INCHES.

After I planted the tank, the water turned green. I added a 9 watt UV sterilizer and things started clearing up nicely. By April 3, the tank was crystal clear.

This morning, April 5, my congo tetras and the 2 borelli apistos were at the top seemingly gulping for air. One of the cacatuoides apistos was also heading to the top. Only the cories seemed completely themselves. I freaked and after testing the water and an online search, I started wondering about oxygen starvation. So, I raised the spray bar on the filter to agitate the top and shoot air bubbles into the water. I also added a 10 inch bubble wall which is really agitating the surface. In an hour all the fish started behaving normally. That is the congo tetra and apistos left the top and started just doing their thing. They are all eating and acting normally now.

So that would be fine but in about 6-8 hours my water has turned an intense green and the tank is over bubbled and looks terrible.

So I'm wondering now if the tall tank is oxygen starved and for a while that made my water clear but my fish sick. I'm wondering if when the plants really get established they should start producing the oxygen I need. I'm wondering if one bubble wall is enough and I can lower the spray bar on my filter.

Any ideas or thoughts on my situation, what the problem might be, and any resolution that doesn't make my tank look so over bubbled?

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[roadmaster]

Okay, I'm struggling to understand what is going wrong here so maybe I can adjust things to optimize my tank environment. Here is the story... long but necessary you get the whole picture..

I have a 60 gallon tall tank (48 x 12 x 24 Height) and a 2215 Eheim Classic canister filter. The tank was cycled March 26th. My water stats have been absolutely consistent at Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 40-80, Ph 7.6, using API Liquid test kit. I test daily if not twice a day. With test strips I measure general hardness at 60-120ppm and carbonate hardness at 80-120 ppm. Temp is constant at 25.5 C or 78 F.

I added 3 congo tetras and an angel fish on March 26 after a 90% water change with dechlor. I added 4 albino cories on March 28. On March 31, I did a 30 % water change with dechlor and planted the tank with a low light package of plants, all common nothing strange. On April 2, the angel started gasping for air at the top and losing energy, stopped eating. On April 3, I added two borelli apistogramma and two cacatuoides apistogramma and one BN pleco (came in the mail). The angel died on April 3. IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL THESE FISH ARE AROUND ONE (1) INCH LONG EXCEPT FOR ONE CORY AT 3 INCHES.

After I planted the tank, the water turned green. I added a 9 watt UV sterilizer and things started clearing up nicely. By April 3, the tank was crystal clear.

This morning, April 5, my congo tetras and the 2 borelli apistos were at the top seemingly gulping for air. One of the cacatuoides apistos was also heading to the top. Only the cories seemed completely themselves. I freaked and after testing the water and an online search, I started wondering about oxygen starvation. So, I raised the spray bar on the filter to agitate the top and shoot air bubbles into the water. I also added a 10 inch bubble wall which is really agitating the surface. In an hour all the fish started behaving normally. That is the congo tetra and apistos left the top and started just doing their thing. They are all eating and acting normally now.

So that would be fine but in about 6-8 hours my water has turned an intense green and the tank is over bubbled and looks terrible.

So I'm wondering now if the tall tank is oxygen starved and for a while that made my water clear but my fish sick. I'm wondering if when the plants really get established they should start producing the oxygen I need. I'm wondering if one bubble wall is enough and I can lower the spray bar on my filter.

Any ideas or thoughts on my situation, what the problem might be, and any resolution that doesn't make my tank look so over bubbled?

Thanks for any ideas.

Perhaps cleaning the filter material in the canister in AQUARIUM water may help. A sealed canister filter may not have the oxygen available for nitrifying bacteria to develop as quickly as it can in some HOB filters that are exposed to air. If the filter material becomes too dirty by the build up of excess organics trapped there,then oxygen levels would perhaps be lower than they would otherwise.If this was the case,then oxygen rich water from water changes would bring some relief.
You do not indicate CO2 being added but this too may have negative effect if too much is being dumped into the tank especially at night.
I believe airstones run at night might be a good idea but during the day,, they might drive off CO2 that plants need. Plants may be using up oxygen of an evening and that combined with possible need for cleaning of filter material, may be contributing to low levels of oxygen. Just my two cents.

 

[ellena]

What do you mean by over bubbled? Bubbles only oxygenate the water in the same way the spray bar does-by agitating the surface. So as long as the surface isn't still, the spray bar alone will probably do it.
As that solved your fishes behaviour problem, it would seem it was low oxygen that was making them gasp at the top. No idea why that would make your water green though. Has it maybe stirred up algae laying on the substrate?

 

[karin]

I'm not running any CO2. Over-bubbled just means that with the spray bar and the bubble wand, lots of tiny bubbles in the tank, not so attractive.

Hummm on the bubbles and plants. Really want the plants to make it but want my fish to make it more. I'm going to try turning off the bubbler tomorrow and just using the spray bar during the day and check the behavior of the fish.

Anyone else on cleaning the filter (in tank water)? It seems to be running well but has never been cleaned. Set up tank in early February and seeded with mature media. So hasn't been cleaned for 2.5 months.

Just a note, the green water has decreased somewhat and fish all accounted for, acting normally and feeding.

Another note, the cories absolutely love that bubble wall. Wow, had no idea you could see joy in fish, they treat it like a rollercoaster ride and keep going back for more. .

 

[karin]

I think I answered my own questions now that I've searched the forum a bit more thoroughly. I think I had some sort of oxygen depletion due to lack of surface disturbance or a hydrogen sulfide release from disturbing soils. It appears while it is controversial that others have had the same experience I have, added an air stone and the fish came around almost immediately. So is it bubbles or surface disturbance, I don't know. But I am afraid to experiment with all my juvenile fish. And then there is the matter of the corys loving that bubble wall.

Anyway thanks.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi karin

Corys are from rivers and streams, so they love well oxygenated, flowing water. In their natural environment the run off water causes the streams to become muddy during the rainy season so they have adapted to that. They are able to gulp air from the surface and absorb the oxygen through their intestins. Occasionally you might see them dart up to the surface to do this but if it happens frequently, it's a sure sign your tank has low levels of oxygen in the water.

 

[nork]

Hey Karin,

Just got your message. Glad to see you got things worked out, sorry for the Angel loss, though.

Keep us posted!

 

[NinjaSmurf]

Ok, I'll be honest, I've only ever had a tank with already mature media, but is adding 13 fish in a week ok after finishing a cycle?

 

[ellena]

If you have done a fishless cycle or used mature media, you need to add all your fish in one go, or the bacteria will die off. I thought the fact that the OP had added them in stages might cause probs, but she said ammonia had been consistently 0, so it can't be that causing the problems.

 

[karin]

Yeah, okay, got a little excited with the fish. But like I said aside from one BIG albino cory, most of the fish are tiny juveniles. I'm guessing some of the bacteria have died off and I'll just have to go slowly. Again, I test the water religiously every 24 hours and sometimes every 12 hours and have had no spiking whatsoever.

I have to say that since adding the bubble wall all is very well. Inchworm, I did see the cories running up to the top frequently so I'm sticking with an O2 problem. I'll start messing with the power of the bubble wall now because I don't like all the bubbles but I just can't take it away from the Corys now. However, my experience now is that I have to do something. The Eheim spray bar just might not be enough surface disturbance but not certain as before I would sometimes drop it below the surface to minimize the bubbles. I like a clear still tank. Anyone out there have a tall tank with no bubbles?

Other interesting thing is that the green water that came on intensely with the bubble wall is all clear again. I don't know if it is a matter of settling or the uv sterilizer is taking care of things.

I'm going to focus on my plants right now. When the plants get established, I'm assuming that that might help with Oxygen? Any comments on cleaning my filter? Since it is working fine I just wanted to leave it for a while, but someone recommended cleaning it.

Just for the conversation, the stocking is:

4 albino cories (3x 1.5 inch and 1x3inch)
1 albino BN (with blue eyes) about 0.75 inch
3 Congo tetras abut 1.25 inch (will increase stocking to 8 later)
2 borelli dwarf cichilds about 0.75 inch
2 cacatuoides dwarf cichilds (1 x 1inch and 1x 0.75 inch)

Total about 15 inches of fish?

 

[Schmill]

Hi, I am intrigued by your issue, I run a Regency 120, (48x18x24), which is a tall (2ft) tank.

I used to run bubblewalls, but that was more for asthetics than anything else, and they are no longer used but I don't believe I have ever had an oxygen problem.

- Where is your spray bar positioned? My is right at the surface of the water, and sprays across the surface from front to back. It is under teh surface fo the water, so is silent, but seems to provide suitable surface agitation.
- What temperature are you running your tank at? Warm water holds oxygen less well than cooler water; if your water is too warm that 'could' be adding to your problem, but again unlikely to cause the issue by itself...
- Were you treating with any medications or adding anything else to your water? Some medications can also reduce the oxygen holding ability of the water.

Lastly, the plants may or may not help the situation. Whilst the plants generally absorb CO2 during the 'day' (tank lights on) and give off oxygen, they will also then use oxygen at 'night' (tank lights off). Although this is the case, again I can't see this being the sole issue for you as I have a heavily planted tank, and no oxygen issues...