Please Help A Newbie Tackle Possible Ich During Cycling!

[robinreliant23]

Hi ... where to begin!

Last weekend I set up a new 54l tank, let it run for 24 hours and the with advice from my LFS added a bottle of Tetra Safestart, some Bactuur on my sponges and 5 neons (yes in hindsight and after some reading wished I'd gone for fishless cycling of the tank!). Oh for a time machine ....

Anyways for a couple of days my readings were 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite and nitrate 5. I thought I noticed a spot, maybe two on one of my neon's tails but was unsure. Day 3 and I had a bacterial bloom, readings were still the same as I'd had before. LFS told me to do a couple of water changes during the week (and I read somewhere this would help clear the cloudiness of the tank which was preventing me from seeing the neons properly). So I did on Day 4 a 10% water change in the morning and the next day my ammonia had gone up to 0.50 and nitrate 5ppm!!! I panicked due to the high readings and did 10% another water change that evening (then read somewhere I shouldn't do any water changes whilst Tetra Safestart as it removes the good bacteria - argh!). So to help combat this I added the rest of the Tetra Safestart I had and the rest of the Bactuur that I had. Day 5 (today) ammonia is still 0.50, nitrite 0.25 but not only am I confused with these readings as I thought ammonia goes to 0 before nitrite starts showing and then when that goes to 0 it's converted into nitrate but it looks like 3 of my neons may have Ich. A couple of fish appears to have 2 maybe 3 spots on their tail and I'm sure I've seen 2 spots on one of their bodies too.

Is this Ich? If so what is the best way to treat it considering the tank is still cycling? Again, I've read about raising the temperature up to 30c and puttiing salt in the tank -- am hoping this way will not upset the bacteria trying to colonize plus I won't need to do any water changes, hoping the SafeStart can still do its job.

But then I'm just a beginner also wondering if it's best to get rid of the lot, hot wash everything and start again fishless.

PLEASE can anyone advise on what I should do? .. Am at a loss and beginning to wonder if getting fish was such a good idea

PS. Tank is currently at 25c

 

[Sam-Baker]

Hi ... where to begin!

Last weekend I set up a new 54l tank, let it run for 24 hours and the with advice from my LFS added a bottle of Tetra Safestart, some Bactuur on my sponges and 5 neons (yes in hindsight and after some reading wished I'd gone for fishless cycling of the tank!). Oh for a time machine ....

Anyways for a couple of days my readings were 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite and nitrate 5. I thought I noticed a spot, maybe two on one of my neon's tails but was unsure. Day 3 and I had a bacterial bloom, readings were still the same as I'd had before. LFS told me to do a couple of water changes during the week (and I read somewhere this would help clear the cloudiness of the tank which was preventing me from seeing the neons properly). So I did on Day 4 a 10% water change in the morning and the next day my ammonia had gone up to 0.50 and nitrate 5ppm!!! I panicked due to the high readings and did 10% another water change that evening (then read somewhere I shouldn't do any water changes whilst Tetra Safestart as it removes the good bacteria - argh!). So to help combat this I added the rest of the Tetra Safestart I had and the rest of the Bactuur that I had. Day 5 (today) ammonia is still 0.50, nitrite 0.25 but not only am I confused with these readings as I thought ammonia goes to 0 before nitrite starts showing and then when that goes to 0 it's converted into nitrate but it looks like 3 of my neons may have Ich. A couple of fish appears to have 2 maybe 3 spots on their tail and I'm sure I've seen 2 spots on one of their bodies too.

Is this Ich? If so what is the best way to treat it considering the tank is still cycling? Again, I've read about raising the temperature up to 30c and puttiing salt in the tank -- am hoping this way will not upset the bacteria trying to colonize plus I won't need to do any water changes, hoping the SafeStart can still do its job.

But then I'm just a beginner also wondering if it's best to get rid of the lot, hot wash everything and start again fishless.

PLEASE can anyone advise on what I should do? .. Am at a loss and beginning to wonder if getting fish was such a good idea

PS. Tank is currently at 25c

Ok right calm down and take a chill pill there is solution to everything

- Ok You havent had the fish so with the spots on the fins check to see if they look attached or are within the fin itself. White spots within the fins have a very simple explenation which doesnt require any treatment - basically white spots inside the fin and white blemishes are whats called bag burn this is when fish are imported to a fish shop from places like south america (tetra) and the fish spend the entire journey in a cramped bag with lots of other fish in very little water so ammonia levels are very high and this causes small burns to the fin , but these will heal up after a couple of weeks and you would never have known they were there. Check and then Double check, Spots/ small white lumps which look like white spots on the body and fins will indeed be white spot or ich and so will creme like spots on the aquarium ornaments this is how ich breeds. Dont add salt as this can affect the bacteria currently cycling the tank, Your research is right turn the tank up to 30C for a couple days until you cannot see anymore parasites on the fish but be sure to check for the small creme like spots on the glass and aquarium ornaments in the tank before giving the all clear and turning the temp down again. Give the cycle time and it will balance out, keep sunlight off of the glass and dont introduce any more fish until the water is stable if it still isnt after a week of 2 the go back to your LFS and ask for some further advice.

 

[robinreliant23]

Ok, hot cup of tea in hand and chill pill going downn now ) I was definately getting my knickers in a twist wasn't I so thank you for the slap round the face - think I needed that )

Right have had a close look and sadly they are small lumps on the fins so it's Ich. In my tank I have gravel substrate, driftwood, 2 plastic plants and 5 small moss balls and from what I can see nothing (ofter than the neons) have any white cream spots so I guess that means they have started the spreading stage yet?

Ah this was what I was worried about with the addition of salt, last thing I want to do is upset the cycling so heater has been turned up and no salt will be added.

I will thoroughly check again on Sunday to see the situation of everything in the tank and will keep an eye that the neons don't get stressed by the rise in the temperature. The powerhead is giving plenty of movement on the surface and I have a bubble wall going across the back of the tank so am hoping this will be plenty of oxygen in the water for them.

Had some fish on hold for this weekend, so will ask LFS to keep them for another week until I can assess what's going on with the Ich and the cycling of the tank.

I'm pleased to see the nitrite level coming down from 5ppm to 0.25pmm but with the ammonia still showing at 0.50 should I not feed them for a couple of days to hold back adding more ammonia to the tank? Will the ammonia come down on its own without water changes?

 

[Sam-Baker]

Ok, hot cup of tea in hand and chill pill going downn now ) I was definately getting my knickers in a twist wasn't I so thank you for the slap round the face - think I needed that )

Right have had a close look and sadly they are small lumps on the fins so it's Ich. In my tank I have gravel substrate, driftwood, 2 plastic plants and 5 small moss balls and from what I can see nothing (ofter than the neons) have any white cream spots so I guess that means they have started the spreading stage yet?

Ah this was what I was worried about with the addition of salt, last thing I want to do is upset the cycling so heater has been turned up and no salt will be added.

I will thoroughly check again on Sunday to see the situation of everything in the tank and will keep an eye that the neons don't get stressed by the rise in the temperature. The powerhead is giving plenty of movement on the surface and I have a bubble wall going across the back of the tank so am hoping this will be plenty of oxygen in the water for them.

Had some fish on hold for this weekend, so will ask LFS to keep them for another week until I can assess what's going on with the Ich and the cycling of the tank.

I'm pleased to see the nitrite level coming down from 5ppm to 0.25pmm but with the ammonia still showing at 0.50 should I not feed them for a couple of days to hold back adding more ammonia to the tank? Will the ammonia come down on its own without water changes?

Good good, I try my best lol.

Salt may burn off certain types of bacteria so its best not, Keep the tank well oxygenated and keep checking for the spread from fish to fish and the creme coloured capsules. If on sunday there is still no improvement then you will have to use a chemical treatment, by sunday the bio process should be stable enough for the water to carry the chemical safely. The tank must be glass to do this, the metholyne blue in the treatment will stain plastic and ornamnets blue and bleach cream ornaments, hopefully you would have to do so but anyway i reccomend anti-white spot from interpet. Easy to dose and understand. Be sure to remove all ornaments and features, gravel should be ok removing this so early on will un-balance the cycle. MAKE SURE you check the filter housing and cartridges especially if as i suspect you are running an internal filter as the creme capsules could form here. Be careful with the chemical as it will stain carpets and walls so... dont spill any and dont wash your hands in the sink let the blue dry, then soak in hot water for 3-4 mins then scrub off if you wash straight away you could stain the floor. I have stained the laminate flooring in my fishroom with metholyne blues sister chemical metholyne green for bacterial infections and fungus.

If you have any other concerns or questions dont hesistate to ask, aslways hear to help

Also its definately a good idea to hold back on those fish until atleast 3-4 days after parasite elimination. Be sure to check the tanks you buy fish from thoroughly and dont buy from tanks with other signs of the parasite. The parasite finds it easiest to take hold when the fish is under stress and fish like clown loach should be avoided for a while as they get incredibly stressed when in transport, more so then most other species. If you do notice that a tank in the shop has the parasite inform the staff and the fish should be immediatly taken off of sale. If the shops tanks run on a joint water setup where the water runs from one tank to the next ( unsure then ask staff) I personally wouldnt buy anyfish from that shop as the parasites are water born so will be in all the tanks and you run the risk of introducing them into your aquarium. Look at the other tanks in the shop and check for the parasites presence just to be safe.

 

[fluttermoth]

You need to do larger water changes to get the ammonia down to zero; it's very dangerous to fish. 10% isn't enough; as long as you switch your heater and filter off you can take out enough water to just leave the fish enough to swim upright.

Forget about all the additives; all you need is a dechlorinator. A temp of 30°C will kill the ich parasite as soon as it becomes free swimming; nothing can get to it while it's still in the cyst (the white spots), so you'll need to keep the temp set at that for about a week.

Have a read of the articles on 'fish in cycling' and the 'nitrogen cycle' in the beginner's resource centre (link is in my sig) so you understand what's going on. You should not add any more fish until you have had a week of double zeros (for ammonia and nitrite) without needing to do water changes; your cycle will be complete then.

 

[Sam-Baker]

You need to do larger water changes to get the ammonia down to zero; it's very dangerous to fish. 10% isn't enough; as long as you switch your heater and filter off you can take out enough water to just leave the fish enough to swim upright.

Forget about all the additives; all you need is a dechlorinator. A temp of 30°C will kill the ich parasite as soon as it becomes free swimming; nothing can get to it while it's still in the cyst (the white spots), so you'll need to keep the temp set at that for about a week.

Have a read of the articles on 'fish in cycling' and the 'nitrogen cycle' in the beginner's resource centre (link is in my sig) so you understand what's going on. You should not add any more fish until you have had a week of double zeros (for ammonia and nitrite) without needing to do water changes; your cycle will be complete then.

Exactly, If i where you I would think about cancelling those fish at your LFS until in a phew weeks time when your tank will be ok for the fish, Patience is a virtue , stock your tank slowly and dont overstock as this will cause episodes like the one today and are irreversible as it i shard to find a home for a fish as most will just go get one from the LFS and the FS dont usually take fish back if there isnt anything wrong with them or take fish full stop.

 

[robinreliant23]

Thank you Sam-Baker and Fluttermoth for your advice. Temperature is steadily rising and I will keep a close eye and will make sure to check filter housing etc. too and will definately hold off on the fish currently put to one side.

 

[fluttermoth]

Best of luck and remember; water changes are your friend

 

[Sam-Baker]

Thank you Sam-Baker and Fluttermoth for your advice. Temperature is steadily rising and I will keep a close eye and will make sure to check filter housing etc. too and will definately hold off on the fish currently put to one side.

Yep, all the best. Hope everything works out for you.

P.S Fluttermoth speaks the truth

 

[fluttermoth]

Thank you Sam-Baker and Fluttermoth for your advice. Temperature is steadily rising and I will keep a close eye and will make sure to check filter housing etc. too and will definately hold off on the fish currently put to one side.

Yep, all the best. Hope everything works out for you.

P.S Fluttermoth speaks the truth

 

[Sam-Baker]

Thank you Sam-Baker and Fluttermoth for your advice. Temperature is steadily rising and I will keep a close eye and will make sure to check filter housing etc. too and will definately hold off on the fish currently put to one side.

Yep, all the best. Hope everything works out for you.

P.S Fluttermoth speaks the truth

haha nice touch

 

[robinreliant23]

ok guys, i've turned the temperature up to 30 celsius. fish seem happy enough and the spots have spread a bit more on them. i was wondering about using super ich cure meds. does anyone have any thoughts on doing this, has anyone used it and if so how did it work out and what do you need to do to administer (how often, what to do with the filter etc).

 

[robinreliant23]

3 days later since turning the heater up to 30 celsius i still have signs of ich on the fish (though they were in cooler temperatures for about an hour and half whilst i changed substrate). the ich hasn't got any worse but how long before the parasite becomes free swimming and in their vulnerable stage for the temperature to hopefully kill it and how long should that take??

 

[Sam-Baker]

3 days later since turning the heater up to 30 celsius i still have signs of ich on the fish (though they were in cooler temperatures for about an hour and half whilst i changed substrate). the ich hasn't got any worse but how long before the parasite becomes free swimming and in their vulnerable stage for the temperature to hopefully kill it and how long should that take??

Im not shore however it shouldnt be much longer, all you can do is watch and wait.

 

[fluttermoth]

I think the lifecycle of the ich is about five days, if I remember right, so not too long now. How's everyone looking? And how has your ammonia level been?