Please Forgive My Newbieness

[Ziggoulous]

So let me start of by saying that I am a 15 year old living in California. When I was younger I loved fish, and would always beg my grandma to buy me some fish. Knowing how she was such a soft heart, she always bought them for me against my parents wishes. This would lead to my fish dying within a month of their purchase. Despite all of this, I always liked fish.

But there then came a point when all of that changed. I was 9 years old, and I wanted a fish tank badly. But my parents wouldn't let me have one, so I asked (begged) my grandma for one. When she took me to the pet store, I saw a fiddler crab, and I immediately wanted one. My grandma bought it for me, and we went home. Unbeknownst to me, the 5 gallon tank we had was thrown out, and we had a fiddler crab to care for. So we pulled out a small bowl and put the fiddler crab and put it there. I was happy, but the next day, it died. I got in so much trouble, that I completely forgot about fish keeping (killing) for the next 6 years.

Now, I am 15 years old, a junior in Highschool and have a brand new working permit, with plans to get a job very soon (depending on the job market). I have since matured far more, and I consider myself responsible, as do my parents. They have agreed to let me go back into fish keeping, (with my own money of course) as long as I take good care of them. My interest in this hobby has resurfaced.

Now I am at the point that I have done some research into properly going into fish keeping. I have narrowed the fish I want to keep, and that is the Pygmy Corydora. I think I'll keep about 8 in a 10 gallon tank, and possibly a 15 gallon tank if I can get a good deal. However there are a few questions in my mind.

Now I know that I have to cycle my tank before I stick the tank, but how exactly do I do this what do I get? Keep in mind that Cycling tanks is a completely new concept to me.

Where should I get my fish? What signs should I look for when I choose out my healthy fish? Is there anything in specific I should check out when I choose the Corydora?

If I keep just Corydoras, what is a list of things I would need (preferably while remaining under budget) to start up and maintain my tank and fish?

I really appreciate any help you guys would give me, and I hereby vow to try to keep my death toll to a minimum. Thanks!

 

[Baccus]

Congratulations for sticking with the fish keeping bug, and even better wanting to do the research and hard yards to achieve your goal of having a healthy thriving tank and inhabitants. Oh and welcome to the forum

 
When people talk about cycling a tank, in actual fact you are cycling the filter, in effect growing the beneficial bacteria that will predominately live within the filter which convert dangerous/ deadly ammonia, and nitrite and then nitrate. Ammonia is by far the more dangerous product produced from fish waste, uneaten food, and any dead decaying plants or wood. Ammonia is converted to nitrite by the good bacteria this is still dangerous to fish but less so than nitrates. The final compound that the nitrite is converted to is nitrate. Large levels of nitrate are still dangerous for fish but this can be controlled and maintained thorough regular tank maintenance which can include vacuuming the substrate in the tank and doing regular partial water changes.
 
 http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
As well as buying the tank I would strongly advise getting your self a good quality water testing kit, API makes a good kit and these can be purchased usually at most petshops or online. The liquid test kits are usually more accurate than the much cheaper and inaccurate strip tests. When purchasing any test kits if you can check the expiry date on the kit, because out of date test kits can also give wrong readings.
 
Because you are hoping to build your tank around pygmy corydoras I would strongly suggest going with a sand substrate over gravel. Sand will not be abrasive to the soft mouth parts and undersides of the corys and you will get to see more natural snuffling behaviour of the corydoras as they search for food. Plants are also good for the corys, even through they can be prone to uprooting planted plants. The plants will provide shade from overhead lights, and shelter for the corys as well as removing ammonia from the water for their growth. Some easy plants to grow that wont be uprooted by the catfish, are Java fern and Anubis. Both of these plants can be attached to natural woods, or fish safe rocks like lava stone.
The other two bits of what I consider essential equipment are a good reliable heater and a good tank thermometer. A back up heater can be purchased at a later date in case the original heater fails. Another bit of kit that I have found to be a saving grace especially during prolonged power outages is a battery powered airstone. This can be placed either in the filter to keep oxygen moving around the bacteria in the filter or put in the tank to keep oxygen entering the tank quicker than just natural conversions occurring at the surface.

 

[Ziggoulous]

Congratulations for sticking with the fish keeping bug, and even better wanting to do the research and hard yards to achieve your goal of having a healthy thriving tank and inhabitants. Oh and welcome to the forum
 
When people talk about cycling a tank, in actual fact you are cycling the filter, in effect growing the beneficial bacteria that will predominately live within the filter which convert dangerous/ deadly ammonia, and nitrite and then nitrate. Ammonia is by far the more dangerous product produced from fish waste, uneaten food, and any dead decaying plants or wood. Ammonia is converted to nitrite by the good bacteria this is still dangerous to fish but less so than nitrates. The final compound that the nitrite is converted to is nitrate. Large levels of nitrate are still dangerous for fish but this can be controlled and maintained thorough regular tank maintenance which can include vacuuming the substrate in the tank and doing regular partial water changes.
 
 http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
As well as buying the tank I would strongly advise getting your self a good quality water testing kit, API makes a good kit and these can be purchased usually at most petshops or online. The liquid test kits are usually more accurate than the much cheaper and inaccurate strip tests. When purchasing any test kits if you can check the expiry date on the kit, because out of date test kits can also give wrong readings.
 
Because you are hoping to build your tank around pygmy corydoras I would strongly suggest going with a sand substrate over gravel. Sand will not be abrasive to the soft mouth parts and undersides of the corys and you will get to see more natural snuffling behaviour of the corydoras as they search for food. Plants are also good for the corys, even through they can be prone to uprooting planted plants. The plants will provide shade from overhead lights, and shelter for the corys as well as removing ammonia from the water for their growth. Some easy plants to grow that wont be uprooted by the catfish, are Java fern and Anubis. Both of these plants can be attached to natural woods, or fish safe rocks like lava stone.
The other two bits of what I consider essential equipment are a good reliable heater and a good tank thermometer. A back up heater can be purchased at a later date in case the original heater fails. Another bit of kit that I have found to be a saving grace especially during prolonged power outages is a battery powered airstone. This can be placed either in the filter to keep oxygen moving around the bacteria in the filter or put in the tank to keep oxygen entering the tank quicker than just natural conversions occurring at the surface.

So if I'm going to plant some live plants, do I put them in before or after I cycle?

 

[Byron]

Baccus explained about cycling and related matters very well.  I would ask a couple questions though, before you go further, and these have a bearing on cycling and your plant questions.
 
Do you know your water parameters for the source water, which presumably will be municipal tap water?  Parameters refers to the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate or bicarbonate hardness, frequently termed Alkalinity) and pH.  Temperature is also a parameter but obviously you can adjust that without getting into water chemistry.  You should be able to find the GH and KH, and likely the pH too, from the municipal water authority, and they may have a website with water data posted.
 
Cycling and live plants can be different depending upon the water parameters.  But these are also important for fish; every species of freshwater fish has evolved to function best within a specific set of parameters.  You have specifically mentioned Corydoras pygmaeus, and this is somewhat of a delicate species.  Sand as Baccus mentioned is very important for this species.  Knowing the parameters is advisable, and I can explain more once we do.  I may also have some suggestions re the cycling, depending upon the parameters.
 
By the way, a 10g is fine for a group of this little cory, or if you can manage it the 15g would be better primarily because it will allow you more options for upper fish in addition to the corys.  I put 6 pygmy corys in my 10g a couple of years back, and they spawn regularly.  I let nature take its course generally, meaning that I do nothing to encourage survival of eggs or fry, but as they have no predators on their own and there is live microscopic food now that the tank is well established with chunks of wood and live plants, so several fry regularly survive.
 
A filter hasn't been mentioned yet, and here I would suggest either a simple single sponge filter conected to a small air pump, or one of the small internal filters.  Eheim make one which I use in my 33g, though it is intended for small tanks like a 10g, and this would avoid an air pump.  We can discuss this further.
 
Byron.

 

[Ziggoulous]

Baccus explained about cycling and related matters very well.  I would ask a couple questions though, before you go further, and these have a bearing on cycling and your plant questions.
 
Do you know your water parameters for the source water, which presumably will be municipal tap water?  Parameters refers to the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate or bicarbonate hardness, frequently termed Alkalinity) and pH.  Temperature is also a parameter but obviously you can adjust that without getting into water chemistry.  You should be able to find the GH and KH, and likely the pH too, from the municipal water authority, and they may have a website with water data posted.
 
Cycling and live plants can be different depending upon the water parameters.  But these are also important for fish; every species of freshwater fish has evolved to function best within a specific set of parameters.  You have specifically mentioned Corydoras pygmaeus, and this is somewhat of a delicate species.  Sand as Baccus mentioned is very important for this species.  Knowing the parameters is advisable, and I can explain more once we do.  I may also have some suggestions re the cycling, depending upon the parameters.
 
By the way, a 10g is fine for a group of this little cory, or if you can manage it the 15g would be better primarily because it will allow you more options for upper fish in addition to the corys.  I put 6 pygmy corys in my 10g a couple of years back, and they spawn regularly.  I let nature take its course generally, meaning that I do nothing to encourage survival of eggs or fry, but as they have no predators on their own and there is live microscopic food now that the tank is well established with chunks of wood and live plants, so several fry regularly survive.
 
A filter hasn't been mentioned yet, and here I would suggest either a simple single sponge filter conected to a small air pump, or one of the small internal filters.  Eheim make one which I use in my 33g, though it is intended for small tanks like a 10g, and this would avoid an air pump.  We can discuss this further.
 
Byron.

Well I live in Fresno California, and I can't seem to find anything on the Water Hardness, pH, or alkalinity of Fresno's tap water. I think I will have to just test the tap myself when I get the testing kit.

I knew that Corydoras needed sand, but what can I put as decorations besides live plants? Do they need love plants? As for aerators, I never knew I might need one.

 

[Byron]

I did a quick search of the city, and found some data here:
http/webapp.fresno.gov/DPU/Water/CCR2014.PDF
 
The GH is listed as total hardness and the average is 122 mg/l (milligrams per litre, which is the same as parts per million or ppm).  This is soft to moderately hard, so no issues for the fish or plants.
 
You should check the pH, and a test kit is a good investment.  The API Master has tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and these are the ones you will be most concerned with, so the liquid Master kit is worth considering.
 
For decor, they love chunks of wood.  Plants are fine.  Corys spend their time browsing over all surfaces, looking for tidbits of food.  But they do like shelter, and will be more "out and about" and less stressed if they have some refuge spots, and this is where the wood is ideal.  The type known as Malaysian Driftwood which might be available in some local stores, and is online, is a good choice.  These pieces, being natural wood, are all different, but often have crevices and tunnels.
 
Live plants involves lighting, another topic.  As we were already on the filter, yes, this is a wise thing to have.  Water circulation has many advantages, but you don't want a raging rapids, as these fish come from flooded forests and quiet flowing streams and will not appreciate having to fight currents.
 
Byron..

 

[Ziggoulous]

Congratulations for sticking with the fish keeping bug, and even better wanting to do the research and hard yards to achieve your goal of having a healthy thriving tank and inhabitants. Oh and welcome to the forum
 
When people talk about cycling a tank, in actual fact you are cycling the filter, in effect growing the beneficial bacteria that will predominately live within the filter which convert dangerous/ deadly ammonia, and nitrite and then nitrate. Ammonia is by far the more dangerous product produced from fish waste, uneaten food, and any dead decaying plants or wood. Ammonia is converted to nitrite by the good bacteria this is still dangerous to fish but less so than nitrates. The final compound that the nitrite is converted to is nitrate. Large levels of nitrate are still dangerous for fish but this can be controlled and maintained thorough regular tank maintenance which can include vacuuming the substrate in the tank and doing regular partial water changes.
 
 http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
As well as buying the tank I would strongly advise getting your self a good quality water testing kit, API makes a good kit and these can be purchased usually at most petshops or online. The liquid test kits are usually more accurate than the much cheaper and inaccurate strip tests. When purchasing any test kits if you can check the expiry date on the kit, because out of date test kits can also give wrong readings.
 
Because you are hoping to build your tank around pygmy corydoras I would strongly suggest going with a sand substrate over gravel. Sand will not be abrasive to the soft mouth parts and undersides of the corys and you will get to see more natural snuffling behaviour of the corydoras as they search for food. Plants are also good for the corys, even through they can be prone to uprooting planted plants. The plants will provide shade from overhead lights, and shelter for the corys as well as removing ammonia from the water for their growth. Some easy plants to grow that wont be uprooted by the catfish, are Java fern and Anubis. Both of these plants can be attached to natural woods, or fish safe rocks like lava stone.
The other two bits of what I consider essential equipment are a good reliable heater and a good tank thermometer. A back up heater can be purchased at a later date in case the original heater fails. Another bit of kit that I have found to be a saving grace especially during prolonged power outages is a battery powered airstone. This can be placed either in the filter to keep oxygen moving around the bacteria in the filter or put in the tank to keep oxygen entering the tank quicker than just natural conversions occurring at the surface.

  

I did a quick search of the city, and found some data here:
http/webapp.fresno.gov/DPU/Water/CCR2014.PDF
 
The GH is listed as total hardness and the average is 122 mg/l (milligrams per litre, which is the same as parts per million or ppm).  This is soft to moderately hard, so no issues for the fish or plants.
 
You should check the pH, and a test kit is a good investment.  The API Master has tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and these are the ones you will be most concerned with, so the liquid Master kit is worth considering.
 
For decor, they love chunks of wood.  Plants are fine.  Corys spend their time browsing over all surfaces, looking for tidbits of food.  But they do like shelter, and will be more "out and about" and less stressed if they have some refuge spots, and this is where the wood is ideal.  The type known as Malaysian Driftwood which might be available in some local stores, and is online, is a good choice.  These pieces, being natural wood, are all different, but often have crevices and tunnels.
 
Live plants involves lighting, another topic.  As we were already on the filter, yes, this is a wise thing to have.  Water circulation has many advantages, but you don't want a raging rapids, as these fish come from flooded forests and quiet flowing streams and will not appreciate having to fight currents.
 
Byron..

There is a new development. My grandpa has kept turtles for almost 30 years, and decided that he is going to give me some young Red Eared Sliders for my Birthday. He has begun to tell me on turtle care, and has gotten me a 20 gallon tank, a filter, some sand, a heater, a uvb light, a basking light, a hood, and a log to start off with. So my question is, can I use my turtles to cycle my tank?

Assuming that I even stay in fish keeping now, what fish can I stick with turtles?

 

[Byron]

I have in the past kept these turtles, though I never bred them.  I would not combine them with any fish, especially in so small a tank.  As for cycling, any creatures depositing ammonia in the water will obviously start the nitrification cycle.  However, I believe I have read that the tank would have to be thoroughly washed after turtles before adding fish, but others with direct experience can comment.

 

[Ziggoulous]

I have in the past kept these turtles, though I never bred them.  I would not combine them with any fish, especially in so small a tank.  As for cycling, any creatures depositing ammonia in the water will obviously start the nitrification cycle.  However, I believe I have read that the tank would have to be thoroughly washed after turtles before adding fish, but others with direct experience can comment.

Do you think the turtles will be hurt from the nitrates and ammonia? Or will those effects be minimal with the cleaning of the tank and their air breathing?

 

[Byron]

 

I have in the past kept these turtles, though I never bred them.  I would not combine them with any fish, especially in so small a tank.  As for cycling, any creatures depositing ammonia in the water will obviously start the nitrification cycle.  However, I believe I have read that the tank would have to be thoroughly washed after turtles before adding fish, but others with direct experience can comment.

Do you think the turtles will be hurt from the nitrates and ammonia? Or will those effects be minimal with the cleaning of the tank and their air breathing?
 

 
Fish have serious issues with ammonia and nitrite (and nitrate for that matter) because of their respiration via the gills.  These substances get into the bloodstream because of this.  As you have noted, turtles breathe air, so this aspect is obviously not an issue.  However, I do not have the knowledge to say if high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate can still affect turtles in some other manner.  I will say that when I had turtles over several years, I never "cycled" the aquarium and to my knowledge no harm occurred to the turtles.
 
Byron.

 

[Ziggoulous]

I have in the past kept these turtles, though I never bred them.  I would not combine them with any fish, especially in so small a tank.  As for cycling, any creatures depositing ammonia in the water will obviously start the nitrification cycle.  However, I believe I have read that the tank would have to be thoroughly washed after turtles before adding fish, but others with direct experience can comment.

Do you think the turtles will be hurt from the nitrates and ammonia? Or will those effects be minimal with the cleaning of the tank and their air breathing?

 
Fish have serious issues with ammonia and nitrite (and nitrate for that matter) because of their respiration via the gills.  These substances get into the bloodstream because of this.  As you have noted, turtles breathe air, so this aspect is obviously not an issue.  However, I do not have the knowledge to say if high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate can still affect turtles in some other manner.  I will say that when I had turtles over several years, I never "cycled" the aquarium and to my knowledge no harm occurred to the turtles.
 
Byron.
Your a real help man. I owe you a ton! So then I looked it up and apparently Turtles don't have a problem with a non cycled tank, so I think I can safely infer that the ammonia in the water will not harm them. In fact, I think that maybe I can use the turtles to cycle the tank for any future fish. I'll dig into it some more or might start another thread.