Play Sand As Substrate

[KittyKat]

I use a clay based cat litter mixed with sand and then capped with sand. Never had a problem with it - can't see that it'd be any different with gravel and sand... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends on the set-up, but it's impossible to predict whether the substrate will need stirring or not. (For whoever is bound to come along and say that it never needs stirring because the gasses are not a problem unless they are disturbed, it is difficult to plant and move plants around without disturbing the substrate.)

 

[NewbeeSteve]

Then finsh off by capping with just sand to get the look. You will always end up with a bit of gravel surfacing but don't worry about it.

I thought using gravel underneath is bad You can get anaerobic bacteria growing in there, which produces a lot of toxins for fish. That's why you have to make sure the substrate is always disturbed.

Thats what i thought, but i suppose the sand would sink down eventually thus filling the gaps? Going to create a pebble beach aquascape i think, sand one end and a gravel bank leading to it or an island where the gravel and sand mix is planted with just pure sand around it

 

[ron4sum1]

I use a clay based cat litter mixed with sand and then capped with sand. Never had a problem with it - can't see that it'd be any different with gravel and sand... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can always cap off with sand. The problem is the disturbance. It would be hard to mix the sand to prevent the anaerobic bacteria from producing toxins without mixing the sand and gravel together. So you'd end up mixing the two substrates again ! On the other hand, if the substrates only 1.5" deep or lower, then there shouldn't be a lot of disturbance needed since there's "ventilation" - sorry can't think of the term

 

[NewbeeSteve]

I use a clay based cat litter mixed with sand and then capped with sand. Never had a problem with it - can't see that it'd be any different with gravel and sand... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That does seem a pretty effective setup

 

[ron4sum1]

Then finsh off by capping with just sand to get the look. You will always end up with a bit of gravel surfacing but don't worry about it.

I thought using gravel underneath is bad You can get anaerobic bacteria growing in there, which produces a lot of toxins for fish. That's why you have to make sure the substrate is always disturbed.

Thats what i thought, but i suppose the sand would sink down eventually thus filling the gaps? Going to create a pebble beach aquascape i think, sand one end and a gravel bank leading to it or an island where the gravel and sand mix is planted with just pure sand around it

You know, I watched this program about underwater river! I hope some chemist can manufacture some sort of blue hydrophobic liquid that's heavy enough to sink in the bottom of the aquarium, thus giving the "beach" effect

 

[Katch]

If you're UK based the cat litter is called Sophisticat Pink. You can get it at Pets at Home. If you're going to the trouble of changing substrate it's worth getting some. It comes with and odour control that needs to be rinsed off. I just put it in a bucket and ran warm water through it for about 15 minutes. You can still sort of smell the odour control after this time but I have setup several tanks and added fish immediately (mature filters) with out any signs of it being detrimental to the fish (even sensitive fish like electric blue rams).

With regard gravel and sand - I thought these scary toxic bacteria sounded a bit odd so did a little more research to confirm my understanding. This link is worth a read.

http/www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/silent_killer.htm

Basically substrates can end up realeasing trapped nitrates when disturbed (which aggravates bioacidification) but in a planted tank this shouldn't be a problem. The plants are using that nitrate all the time not to mention the action of their root systems as they spread through the substrate. This issue of killing off the layer of aerobic bacteria on the surface should also be moot if we assume you are using a well matured filter that is more than capable of processing the amonnia and nitrite produced by your stock.

- on another note mentioned; the sand will sink through the gravel/clay and the clay will appear to rise up. This is just physics - go shake a packet of cornflakes and all the big ones 'float' to the top. When I tried to use cat litter capped with sand I have real problems keep the sand on top. Since moving to a 50/50 bottom layer and then capping it is a lot easier. That and I've stopped worrying about the bits of clay that do surface. As the tanks and plant mature it looks good.

 

[ron4sum1]

If you're UK based the cat litter is called Sophisticat Pink. You can get it at Pets at Home. If you're going to the trouble of changing substrate it's worth getting some. It comes with and odour control that needs to be rinsed off. I just put it in a bucket and ran warm water through it for about 15 minutes. You can still sort of smell the odour control after this time but I have setup several tanks and added fish immediately (mature filters) with out any signs of it being detrimental to the fish (even sensitive fish like electric blue rams).

With regard gravel and sand - I thought these scary toxic bacteria sounded a bit odd so did a little more research to confirm my understanding. This link is worth a read.

http/www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/silent_killer.htm

Basically substrates can end up realeasing trapped nitrates when disturbed (which aggravates bioacidification) but in a planted tank this shouldn't be a problem. The plants are using that nitrate all the time. This issue of killing off the layer of aerobic bacteria on the surface should also be moot if we assume you are using a well matured filter that is more than capable of processing the amonnia and nitrite produced by your stock.

- on another note mentioned; the sand will sink through the gravel/clay and the clay will appear to rise up. This is just physics - go shake a packet of cornflakes and all the big ones 'float' to the top. When I tried to use cat litter capped with sand I have real problems keep the sand on top. Since moving to a 50/50 bottom layer and then capping it is a lot easier. That and I've stopped worrying about the bits of clay that do surface. As the tanks and plant mature it looks good.

There you go Steve!

Although, it's good that substrates release trapped nitrates. It depends on the amount of plants you have in the aquarium that the effect of nitrates becomes negligible. If it's not a problem, we wont be needing water changes ! You will be needing so much plants to replace water changes.

 

[Katch]

There actually is a Barr method I believe that works on zero water changes. You need enough plants and the right balance of light and stocking as to eliminate the need for water changes all together. I'd not recommend it however as there are other trace elements that build up in aquariums.

 

[NewbeeSteve]

Awesome info thanks! It will have a lot of java fern aswell as 1 annuabis nana until i get the java moss for the grass effect so that should help control the buildup and should be enough to help the plants grow. Bonus!

Thanks again peeps for all the help, very grateful and cleared a lot of worries up

 

[ron4sum1]

There actually is a Barr method I believe that works on zero water changes. You need enough plants and the right balance of light and stocking as to eliminate the need for water changes all together. I'd not recommend it however as there are other trace elements that build up in aquariums.

Oh, I haven't heard of it hehe! It'll probably complicate stuff. So Steve, stick to water changes

I'll go around town and walk to my petstore hehe!

Good luck! I hope everything works out.

 

[NewbeeSteve]

Just found a great bargain to get started with. 30kg of play sand in Tesco for £6! Will put pics up after as im doing it tonight

Cant wait to see the difference now!