Platies are dying I am confused need help

[Sarav]

Hi ,

I am new to the hobby, I had got a 29 gallon tank. I had let it run with filter for about a week( I hoped good bacteria will develop over this time). Then i had introduced only 3 platies. Out of which 2 died in about 3 days.Then the remaining 1 was all alone for about a week.But it was not looking ok, then to give company i added just 1 more platy after about 2 weeks since i introduced first fish. Now one of the old surviving fish died , within 3 days the newly introduced fish too had died. So in 4 weeks of running the tank all the 4 platies died. I had been testing my water all along. Water parameters for last 3 weeks are always shows below constant values..

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 to 10 ppm (mine is a medium planted tank has java ferns, water sprite, water wisteria, jungle val)
Ph: 7 to 7.3
Gh: 40 ppm
Kh: 40 ppm

I did water changes mostly every 4 days not more than 20%. I have an powerful hob filter and have an air stone too.

I even took water sample 2 LFS , they too shared the same result.

Common symptoms which platies showed are first avoiding food, then after few days always going to surface for breathing finally before dying sinking to bottom for a day or so.gills were bit red.


One update was i had a higrow willow plant which had badly wilted away before i introduced first 3 fishes. And all the initial 3 were nibbling away at it. Not sure if that could have caused any issue.

I had thought may be it can be gill flukes, i have even dozed prazipro 2 times (5 ml doses),but last 2 fishes never recovered too.

Sorry for a long post, but wanted to give details.

Please say if anyone had same problem with platies.My guy at LFS said no issue with water quality all is good, just a bad batch of platies may be. He said platies may need a even more harder water, which could be a cause,jot sure of that.

So now for.a change i have introduced scissor tail rasboras 7 of them to my aquarium. They seem ok for now.fingers crossed.

Please help with anything which could have killed my platies. Thanks!!

 

[Valerie Adams]

When you let the filter run for a week did you introduce any type of ammonia (fish food, pure ammonia, etc) to the tank?

 

[Byron]

It is not at all easy to diagnose fish problems as so many symptoms can be due to several causes. But something does stand out, and that is that you have very soft water. GH at 40 ppm (equates to 2 dGH) is not suitable for livebearers that need mineral (calcium and magnesium) in the water. I would not have thought this would affect them as rapidly, but it would certainly have seriously compromised them and made them much more susceptible to other issues. Avoid any hard water species (all livebearers, rift lake cichlids, and a few others).

Soft water species which includes most fish from South America (tetras, pencilfish, hatchetfish, cories, many catfish) and SE Asia (rasboras) will be fine with respect to the water parameters. So the scissortail rasbora should do OK but I should point out that this is not a small fish, attaining six inches, and it should have at least a 4-foot tank. You might consider exchanging them?

 

[seangee]

It is not at all easy to diagnose fish problems as so many symptoms can be due to several causes. But something does stand out, and that is that you have very soft water. GH at 40 ppm (equates to 2 dGH) is not suitable for livebearers that need mineral (calcium and magnesium) in the water. I would not have thought this would affect them as rapidly, but it would certainly have seriously compromised them and made them much more susceptible to other issues. Avoid any hard water species (all livebearers, rift lake cichlids, and a few others).

I agree - that was my first thought.

 

[Alliesten]

Can you do a full set of water parameters on your tap water? I’m curious if the nitrates are in your tap. The way you explained cycling your tank, shouldn’t have worked at all.

What are you using to test your water? Strips or a liquid kit? What did your LFS use?

All the symptoms your fish are showing sounds like ammonia poisoning. But you are definitely doing the things you should to counter act it.

What dechlorinator are you using? Seachem Prime will detoxify ammonia, and then if you are using test strips, it will show up as a 0 on your testing. But it only detoxifies for 24-48 hours. So after it wears off, ammonia will be toxic in your tank, until the next dose of Prime.

Just trying to piece together what is happening..

You definitely have soft water. You want your kH to be over 71.6 to maintain a stable pH. You may want to add some crushed coral to your filter to stabilize your kH and pH. Otherwise you may have a pH crash. (Honestly this could be happening already, and it is recovering with the water changes)

 

[NickAu]

All the symptoms your fish are showing sounds like ammonia poisoning

I tend to agree

I did water changes mostly every 4 days not more than 20%.

But you are definitely doing the things you should to counter act it.

Im sorry if this sounds rude but 20% water changes mostly every 4 days on an uncycled tank with fish in it is nowhere enough.

We should be looking at 50% daily with treated water as the minimum

 

[Sarav]

It is not at all easy to diagnose fish problems as so many symptoms can be due to several causes. But something does stand out, and that is that you have very soft water. GH at 40 ppm (equates to 2 dGH) is not suitable for livebearers that need mineral (calcium and magnesium) in the water. I would not have thought this would affect them as rapidly, but it would certainly have seriously compromised them and made them much more susceptible to other issues. Avoid any hard water species (all livebearers, rift lake cichlids, and a few others).

Soft water species which includes most fish from South America (tetras, pencilfish, hatchetfish, cories, many catfish) and SE Asia (rasboras) will be fine with respect to the water parameters. So the scissortail rasbora should do OK but I should point out that this is not a small fish, attaining six inches, and it should have at least a 4-foot tank. You might consider exchanging them?

Yeah, I do know but now all are very small in sizes like 1 inch may be. So for now i am leaving them as such...

 

[Sarav]

When you let the filter run for a week did you introduce any type of ammonia (fish food, pure ammonia, etc) to the tank?

No i did not introduce any ammonia, so yes later i realized it was of not much use and cannot be considered fishless cycle.. my bad , so i was literally doing a fish in cycle

 

[Byron]

Yeah, I do know but now all are very small in sizes like 1 inch may be. So for now i am leaving them as such...

You mention in post #1 that you are new to the hobby, so I will take the time to explain why your thinking in this latest post is not good, and is actually cruel to the fish.

Shoaling fish need a group; this is programmed into their DNA. They also have behaviours like active swimming or whatever, similarly programmed into the DNA. When we acquire the fish from stores, usually they are juvenile. Providing them initially with the appropriate environment allows them to develop as nature intends--and demands. Very early on the fish begin to "settle" and any aspect of their environment that they "expect" but which is missing will be detrimental to their development. In most cases, significantly so.

I don't know if a larger tank is intended, but "intentions" may not come about for various reasons. And the fish have lost out. It is humane to the fish to return them very soon, before they begin to settle.

 

[Sarav]

Can you do a full set of water parameters on your tap water? I’m curious if the nitrates are in your tap. The way you explained cycling your tank, shouldn’t have worked at all.

What are you using to test your water? Strips or a liquid kit? What did your LFS use?

All the symptoms your fish are showing sounds like ammonia poisoning. But you are definitely doing the things you should to counter act it.

What dechlorinator are you using? Seachem Prime will detoxify ammonia, and then if you are using test strips, it will show up as a 0 on your testing. But it only detoxifies for 24-48 hours. So after it wears off, ammonia will be toxic in your tank, until the next dose of Prime.

Just trying to piece together what is happening..

You definitely have soft water. You want your kH to be over 71.6 to maintain a stable pH. You may want to add some crushed coral to your filter to stabilize your kH and pH. Otherwise you may have a pH crash. (Honestly this could be happening already, and it is recovering with the water changes)

Hey Alliesten,
Thanks for Analysis. I am using api 5 in 1 to measure nitrites and nitrates, i also use API ammonia solution test kit to check ammonia. I also have API ph solution test kit too..

I use Tetra Aquasafe plus for dechlorinating, it wont act on ammonia i guess. I will defenitely check my tap water for nitrates, but my ammonia test kit never shows any presence of ammonia..so i guess my tank should have been cycled as i read nitrates...anyway will check my tap water and confirm for any nitrates..

For water hardiness, i just started to add seachem equilibrium(abt 1 tsp for my 29 gallon) during my last water change, so that it can increase mineral content and atleast keep ph constant if not increase my ph a bit.. I will check my hardiness today, since its almost a week since it has been added..

Yeah i was worried a bit for ph crashes ,but all the result i get from my 5 in 1 strip is about 7 or so and from my ph solution is 7.4 or 7.5. I do test before every water change ..so i think ph should be constant..

One more update , unfortunately i lost one of my rasbora too yesterday . Rest are acting normally..

 

[Sarav]

You mention in post #1 that you are new to the hobby, so I will take the time to explain why your thinking in this latest post is not good, and is actually cruel to the fish.

Shoaling fish need a group; this is programmed into their DNA. They also have behaviours like active swimming or whatever, similarly programmed into the DNA. When we acquire the fish from stores, usually they are juvenile. Providing them initially with the appropriate environment allows them to develop as nature intends--and demands. Very early on the fish begin to "settle" and any aspect of their environment that they "expect" but which is missing will be detrimental to their development. In most cases, significantly so.

I don't know if a larger tank is intended, but "intentions" may not come about for various reasons. And the fish have lost out. It is humane to the fish to return them very soon, before they begin to settle.

Sure Thanks for the explanation, i will check with the store where i have purchased to see if they are willing to take back. So considering fragile nature of my tank, what fishes are suitable. I dont want to add any live bearers atleast until i know my fishes can live and be healthy in my aquarium. I defenitely know neon,cardinal tetras,catfishes are very sensitive to water parameters. So are zebra/leapord danios my only options.

Also is Api ammonia test kit good enough to test ammonia in water, The expiry date is not before end of 2020.But i have a doubt if my ammonia kit is working as expected as anytime I test it shows only 0 ammonia. Are any other better test kits available to check ammonia,let me know.

Plus recently i get more brown algae (diatoms)on walls and on my substrate.is it anyway linked with nitrogen cycle. I use lighting for about 6 to 7 hours a day. Thx!!

 

[Sarav]

I tend to agree





Im sorry if this sounds rude but 20% water changes mostly every 4 days on an uncycled tank with fish in it is nowhere enough.

We should be looking at 50% daily with treated water as the minimum

Hey Nick,

Thanjs for reply.Sure Yeah agreed , but one thing i was worried /confused was all because i never got any ammonia reading during the tests,
I had tested with solution several times i never get any ammonia reading it was always less than 0.25 ppm if not always 0.. and another supporting fact was reading of nitrates from my strip, around 5 to 10 ppm mostly. So hoping tank should have cycled.so i did not want to make many water changes and worry the fishes even more than they were already. But today is due for my water change , while i am doing again i ll check parameters again and post results..plus as one user suggested i will check my tap water for nitrates..and make a 50%water change..Fingers crossed.. Thx!!

 

[Byron]

So considering fragile nature of my tank, what fishes are suitable. I dont want to add any live bearers atleast until i know my fishes can live and be healthy in my aquarium. I defenitely know neon,cardinal tetras,catfishes are very sensitive to water parameters. So are zebra/leapord danios my only options.

Live bearers are definitely out permanently. The only way you could maintain livebearers in your water would be to raise the GH/KH and pH significantly. Earlier in the thread the GH was given a 2 dGH; it needs to be at least 10 dGH for species like platies and swordtails and much higher for Mollies. Given the wide range of options for suitable fish with your very soft water, I wold not go down the road of adjusting water parameters. It can be done, obviously, but there are issues.

Something else occurs to me, defining "parameters." Many new hobbyists confuse parameters with conditions. Parameters are GH, KH, pH and temperature. The GH, KH and pH of your source (tap) water generally remain much the same unles targeted within the aquarium. The temp obviously the aquarist can control. Conditions are the other things like ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, TDS (total dissolved solids), and while any of these may be present in the source water, they tend to occur within the aquarium and we should be able to manage them. This leads to your comment on sensitive fish, and this involves parameters and conditions.

All species of freshwater fish have evolved to function optimally in very specific parameters. Getting into a discussion about adaptability would be complex here, but suffice it to say there is some degree of adaptability, though species vary in how much or even if they can adapt. The cardinals, neons, cory catfish have limited adaptability but that is not going to be an issue with your water.

Conditions also impact fish, and some species have a much lower tolerance than others. But good husbandry should remove any issues involving water conditions.

Soft water fish (generally, there are a few exceptions) include most fish from South America which includes the characins (tetras, pencilfish, hatchetfish), various catfish including cories, and dwarf cichlids. From SE Asia there are rasbora, danio, barb, gourami, loaches. Within these groups there are hundreds of species in total, so you should have no issues finding suitable species for your aquarium. Obviously all of these cannot be put togehter due to their size, temperament, tank size, behaviours, needs, etc. But you can find any number of possibles.

You mentioned zebra/leopard danios...while suited to the water, their very active swimming habits can make them less suitable either for the tank size (length is very important with active fish as opposed to sedate fish) or as tankmates; sedate fish like gourami for example do not appreciate danios or barbs charging around their environment. Neons and cardinals are fairly quiet/sedate fish. Cories closer to that than active, and not likiely to cause issues for quieter fish above them.

 

[Byron]

Plus recently i get more brown algae (diatoms)on walls and on my substrate.is it anyway linked with nitrogen cycle. I use lighting for about 6 to 7 hours a day.

A newly set-up aquarium takes a few months to become established; this is not the same as "cycled." Established means the water chemistry has basically stabilized for the relevant factors (water parameters, fish load, feeding, plants, light). During this initial time of varying conditions, algae is quick to take advantage. Diatoms are frequently encountered but should dissipate. Other types of algae may stay around unless we make things uncooperative for algae.

If the brown easily comes off with your fingertip, it is diatoms. Clean it off at water changes. There are fish that will eat this, but I am never quick to suggest acquiring fish to solve a problem because the fish may have requirements of its own and things can get worse. But in your water, and considering other things, otos would relish diatoms. But only if you really like otos as fish and want to have them permanently; if not, do not get them just to eat the diatoms that are here today and will be gone very soon.

 

[Colin_T]

Also is Api ammonia test kit good enough to test ammonia in water, The expiry date is not before end of 2020. But i have a doubt if my ammonia kit is working as expected as anytime I test it shows only 0 ammonia. Are any other better test kits available to check ammonia,let me know.

If you get a glass of water and add some fish food. Wait an hour and then test that water for ammonia. There should be an ammonia reading caused by the fish food breaking down in the glass of water.

----------------------
Your original post would suggest a water quality issue (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH or low GH) or a chemical poisoning the fish.

Do you use a bucket specifically for the fish tank or do you use any bucket in the house?

Make sure you don't have any creams, grease, oil, perfume, or any chemicals on your hands when working on the fish. Use a perfume free soap to wash up. If you use anti-bacterial soap, wash your hands with water only before working in the tank because they can leave a residue behind that poisons fish.

If you can post some pictures of the sick or dead fish it helps us identify the problem.