Plants Helping With Ammonia?

[eaglesaquarium]

I was referencing the Walstad method in regards to ammonium uptake.  But, when we talk about 'ammonia' in the hobby, most are referencing what is measured by most test kits, which is the sum of the ammonia and ammonium.
 
 
Walsted's article regarding plants affinity for ammonium versus nitrate...
http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_Biological_Filtration
 
Ammonia versus ammonium...
http/www.extension.iastate.edu/CropNews/2008/0421JohnSawyer.htm
 
 
As the ammonium gets used up, the ammonia that remains can be converted to ammonium (as dictated by the article referenced above), as determined by the pH of the water.  And thereby, the plants are 'removing' the ammonia from the water.
 
 
Daize is correct though, and carbon is the limiting factor for plant growth.  But, assuming a sufficient supply of carbon is present, many plants can use the ammonium present in the water for growth and don't require nitrate.  Nitrates are used primarily in fertilizers because it is far less toxic than ammonia in a tank, and if the pH is high enough, adding ammonium to the water to fertilize the plants would create toxic ammonia in the water.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Daize is correct though, and carbon is the limiting factor for plant growth.

Any element and or light can be can't it? Prefereably in a planted tank you do have the light as the limiting factor....?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, that's true as well.  I suppose I should have stated carbon is 'a' limiting factor.  Light, of course, would be number 1.

 

[daizeUK]

In practice I suspect light is only likely to be the limiting factor in a carbon-enriched tank with plenty of nutrients.  In a non-enriched tank the most likey limiting factor will be carbon.
 
I don't wish to derail the thread, but on the subject of limiting factors I found this article very interesting: http/www.tropica.com/en/tropica-abc/basic-knowledge/co2-and-light.aspx
In essence it explains that plant growth is not simply limited by the least available resource as once thought but is based on more complex relationships, particularly between light and CO2.

 

[SO19Firearms]

That's an interesting read.

 

[LunaBug]

I actually appreciate all this information because I'm still fairly uneducated on the value of live plants in a tank. I originally added live plants because my betta kept managing to destroy his fins on the artificial decoration in the tank (even though I tried every which way to snag panty hose with them and they wouldn't).

I already had to use one dosing of algaefix simply because the brown algae would not die. I'd scrub it off and it would be back the next day 3fold.

I've been wary of using root tabs or ferts because of an existing ammonia problem that won't seem to right itself even with multiple large water changes. Would anyone recommend the best way to go about introducing these things so that they won't cause a restart in my cycle?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Ugh- hate this site sometimes- when I take a while to write a post I get knocked off the site and when I do hit post, it doesn't and says I am logged off. I worked up a great example to show the NH3 and NH4 balance at different pH levels. A 5 ppm total ammonia reading does not have a 20% level in the NH3 form at 78F until the pH approaches 9.0.
 
Because the NH3 and NH4 balance is equalized almoast instantly, it doesn't matter which form the plants take up, it goes back into balance and the result is the total ammonia goes down. The same applies to the bacteria which usually consume NH3. As fast as they can take it out it is replaced until the total ammonia is basically 0.
 
 
This is why plants speed the cycle.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sorry for the disruption with the site TTA... might be a good idea to use word, etc. to type long posts and then copy and paste them in later.
 
 
 
Luna, I don't understand what you are asking now... Are you asking whether or not root tabs or ferts will affect your cycle?  If so, then no - they should have no effect on your cycle.
 
Regarding your ammonia levels not changing after a water change - what is the ammonia in your tap water? 
 
As far as plants for bettas, they appreciate large leaved plants, like anubias, they are also fond of floating plants to provide cover (but still need to have access to the surface, as they are surface breathers at times).

 

[LunaBug]

My question is still the same as to whether the plants will help with ammonia but will adding ferts or root tabs hinder the cycling process?

The tap ammonia is less than .25 PPM but not quite 0. My tank has had issues with ammonia spiking to dangerous levels in the past after it went through its fishless cycle. I'm not sure at this point what else to do to aid in lowering the ammonia.

 

[daizeUK]

You've already been answered on both counts - yes plants will help with ammonia and no ferts will not affect the cycle.
 
If your previous fishless cycle completed successfully then the ammonia spikes were due to something else - overstocking, overfeeding, dead animals or rotting plants in the tank, chorine/chloramines during a water change, old tank syndrome, ph crash, cleaning chemicals poisoning the tank, etc.  Adding plants will not be a miracle cure for sudden severe ammonia spikes if that's what you're hoping for.
 
A little ammonia in the tap water is not a major worry.  Any water supply with chloramines will have some ammonia when it's dechlorinated during water changes so this is nothing new.  Using a dechlorinator such as Seachem Prime is supposed to help detoxify this ammonia and give your bacteria more time to process it and that's what I use.  An established tank should handle a tiny bit of ammonia easily though.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

My question is still the same as to whether the plants will help with ammonia but will adding ferts or root tabs hinder the cycling process?

 
Plants will help, if healthy.
 
Ferts/root tabs will not hinder the cycling process.
 
 

The tap ammonia is less than .25 PPM but not quite 0. My tank has had issues with ammonia spiking to dangerous levels in the past after it went through its fishless cycle. I'm not sure at this point what else to do to aid in lowering the ammonia.

 
As Daize states, this is probably due to a different cause.  What are your husbandry habits?  Water change size, frequency, etc.  Stocking, tank size, etc.