Plants Helping With Ammonia?

[LunaBug]

I have been reading up on easy to care for plants to add to my aqueon evolve and was looking for some input. I came across the Marimo Moss Balls and was wondering if anyone had experience with these. From my understanding they are a great addition to the bio filtration in a tank and are helpful at removing harmful ammonia. Is this true or is it just a sales pitch? I also am in need of some taller plants that can grow in low light settings to help even out the back of my tank.

I have a thread in the freshwater planted journals of anyone is interested in seeing the current set up.

 

[mike455555]

tall plants, what type leafy or reedy?  
 
moss balls are a type of algae, but it doesnt spread like most others, they dont help remove ammonia, but they do help remove the nitrates,(i think)  but any plant in there would do that, faster growing ones will remove more 

 

[LunaBug]

If I'm using algaefix will it damage the Marimo? I'm thinking of picking one up to have front and center as a focal point.

Edit: to answer your question, I have rather leafy mid-ground plants. I am open to suggestions as far as the tall back side plants. I'd also love a ground cover grass.

 

[Maehlice]

I'm going with "sales pitch".  Literally anything you add to an aquarium will help with nitrification.  Why?  Surface area; nitrifying bacteria live on hard surfaces.  Any hard surface (even plant leaves) can become a home to bacteria.
 
EDIT:  That is why products like bioballs and ceramic cylinders tout their surface area so much.
 
Also, plants do not consume ammonia.  In fact, ammonia is toxic to plants also.  Plants and anaerobic bacteria consume nitrates.

 

[mike455555]

aerobic bacteria do as well (thats the stuff in your filter) anaerobic is normally found in the last stages and turns NO3- into N2,  and SO2  
 
as for leafy mid ground i would go for a crypt there easy to grow, unless you want to be adding co2  and ferts id stay away from most grassy looking plants saying that lilaeopsis brasiliensis

 

[LunaBug]

I currently have some amazon and Argentina swords as well as a java fern attached to rock and what I am assuming is a rosette sword.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I'm going with "sales pitch".  Literally anything you add to an aquarium will help with nitrification.  Why?  Surface area; nitrifying bacteria live on hard surfaces.  Any hard surface (even plant leaves) can become a home to bacteria.
 
EDIT:  That is why products like bioballs and ceramic cylinders tout their surface area so much.
 
Also, plants do not consume ammonia.  In fact, ammonia is toxic to plants also.  Plants and anaerobic bacteria consume nitrates.

 
This is incorrect.  Plants, specifically stem plants, are actually quite adept at using ammonia as their nitrogen source, which is where a 'silent cycle' comes from. 
 
If the ammonia levels are too high, then the ammonia can be a problem to the plants.  But, the same can be true of nitrates... if they are too high (much higher though) the plants can be harmed by the nitrates as well.
 
Of course, if the ammonia is too high, it can also kill the aerobic bacteria that we need in our tanks to deal with the ammonia.

I currently have some amazon and Argentina swords as well as a java fern attached to rock and what I am assuming is a rosette sword.

 
 
Some floating plants would be excellent at soaking up excess nitrogen in the tank... many 'stem' plants are actually quite adept as floating plants - plants like anacharis, water sprite, frogbit, etc. are nice floating plants.

 

[Maehlice]

...
Also, plants do not consume ammonia.  ...

 
This is incorrect.  Plants, specifically stem plants, are actually quite adept at using ammonia as their nitrogen source, which is where a 'silent cycle' comes from. 
 
If the ammonia levels are too high, then the ammonia can be a problem to the plants.  

 
I don't mean to derail this thread, so please feel free to reply in a new thread or privately ...
 
Can you expound on that or point me in the direction of some good reading?  I've possibly misread elsewhere, as aquatic chemistry and biology are certainly not my strongest suits.  Thinking mostly back to Diana Walstad's writings and claims, there is no clear evidence plants can consume ammonia (NH3), rather they consume ammonium (NH4+).
 
I have also read ammonia is diffused into plant cells and converted to ammonium (which I guess results in the same goal of a net reduction of ammonia anyway) but that the rate in which that occurs is mostly insignificant by comparison to the beneficial bacteria elsewhere in the system.
 
The science of this hobby is ultimately what first drew me in, so I thoroughly look forward to anything you can provide.  

 

[Ch4rlie]

If you want low tech plants that are pretty easy to look after, I would suggest Elodea - Egeria dense.
 
This is a stem plant that grows pretty long and can float on water surface.
 
Very god at absorbing nitrates and is a fairly nice plant, looks good when you plant a few fairly close together in the corner of your tank.
 
So, cheap, pretty much a staple plant at LFS !
 
Look at my sig pic, the longest plant on right side is a single elodea.....

 

[ian]

Plants will use ammonia, but the amounts they use are really negligible. They prefer Ammonium, and this is the base for the decent plant ferts on the market. Plants are opportunistic, however in studies, aquatic plants much prefer N03 and will use this source before any other.

 

[daizeUK]

That's interesting Ian, I had heard the opposite and plants would consume ammonium by preference before nitrate.
I was also given to understand that ammonium and ammonia are freely interchangeable depending upon temperature and pH so removing ammonium is still a good thing as the ammonia will convert to ammonium to balance things out.

 

[ech0o]

Plants are able to consume ammonia in ANY form, weather is be ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, they are ALL consumed by plants.  From what I understand they do prefer ammonia (ammonium may come first), then nitrate, then nitrite.   The amounts of nitrite used by the plants is the negligible part.   Also, I am pretty sure the reason the ammonium is used in ferts, is because it is less harmful to fish then its counter part, although it is never used at the sole nitrogen source.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Is this true or is it just a sales pitch?

Sales pitch - you can see why from the questions raised above

But as Ian said, the amounts they'd use are negligable meaning you'd have an ammonia problem before they'd start to help. Hence why the better plants foods have undetectable* amounts of ammonia in them - Otherwise they'd be problem too.

And I recommend "Teaming with nutrients" for those looking for a mid/low-level insight to nutrition.



*by the hobbiest once its in the tank

 

[ech0o]

Val's are good fast growers for nitrogen removal.   Marimo balls are very slow going, while pretty neat, they unfortunately do not grow at a rate to where they remove much from the water.  I would HIGHLY advise against using any algae remover, and yes, it will kill your marimo.

The best algae remover, is elbow grease!!!!!
 
Also, and this I have read no real science behind but it sounded too perfect to be false, I have "heard" that with plants like stem plants, and rooted plants, the leaves absorb more of the ammonium/ammonia, whereas the roots absorb more nitrate.  

 

[daizeUK]

Surely the problem with stem plants removing nitrate (or any other source of nitrogen) is they must also have a plentiful source of carbon?
Fast growing plants cannot keep up a rapid pace of growth in a non-carbon enriched tank, unless anybody would like to enlighten me?  At least, mine have always died after a few weeks