Planted tank ferts questions!

[cowgirluntamed]

So, I have a 20 gallon high tank, running maybe 5 months give or take? Fluval aquasky light not to it's full brightness.

It has crypt lutea, crypt wendtii, a couple of anubias, a dwarf aquarium lily, 2 kliener bar swords(not doing great), floating wisteria doing awful, and now some dwarf water lettuce and salvinia that came in with it. Lol.

I started with flourish root tabs and flourish comprehensive at 1 1/2 ml once a week.

A couple of months in, the leaves on the swords started dying. I added in another root tab. All the big leaves are gone and it just has tiny ones....these were supposed to be background plants...lol. I will probably replace.

Anyway, another month in and the crypt leaves started lightening in color and the wisteria was not doing well. I also cut the lilies off to grow more leaves but then it just quit growing. So I added more root tabs and upped the flourish comprehensive to 2ml once a week.

Not really any changes. I don't remember exactly when I got the water lettuce and salvinia, maybe a month ago. I also tried to trim the wisteria because some pieces of stem were rotting. I upped my dosing of comprehensive to 2ml twice a week(water change is on Thursday so I dose when filling tank as I don't use water conditioned since I'm on a well, and then I dose again on Sundays.

Now...I am seeing some improvement finally. My lily finally is growing lilies again(this started a few days ago) and I haven't noticed any more deteriorating on the crypts. The water lettuce and salvinia seem to be doing ok I think, but the water lettuce is not. And the swords are still tiny(these may require more light than I want in the tank I suppose.)

I have not, thankfully, had any kind of algae outbreaks. Except some fuzz on the wisteria. I wasn't as good at doing water changes and dosing then but I'm much better about it now!

So, questions....should I just give up on the wisteria? I'm not even sure it has roots anymore, maybe just a few tiny ones. They grew a bit when I trimmed them but not anymore. Should I try planting it just to have it in there still? That would leave me with a lot less floating plants(not much now anyway, need more!!) I may try getting more water lettuce later.

Should I continue dosing the flourish comprehensive at 2ml twice a week since I am seeing improvement? Do you think I need to add anything like flourish trace? I would really like faster growth from my water lettuce and salvinia but maybe I just need more patience....lol. any questions, just ask!

 

[AbbeysDad]

Plant growth is a like a dance with light and nutrients. I don't know anything about your light and you don't mention photo period. You did mention it's a 20 high, and light diminishes rapidly in deeper water. You may need more light (photo period) in conjunction with more ferts.

I use Flourish Comp and root tabs, but I'm not certain it's always enough. Since my water is neither soft nor hard, I sometimes add some Seachem Equilibrium.

I have the Finnex Planted Plus 24/7 and although I love the 24/7 feature, my 60g is 24" tall and I determined I needed more midday light so I put it on Max from 10am till 3pm most days, then back into 24/7 mode.

Lately I've been experimenting with Aquarium Co-op's Easy Green and down the road I think I just might try Thrive. I like to stay lean on the ferts since my purpose with plants is to better purify the water and adding excessive ferts seems to run counter to the objective.

 

[Toney]

I just switched to dry ferts.

I was using flourish, then added leafzone and was still getting deficiencies

Flourish itself isn't enough, you need to buy the rest of the bottles, like flourish iron and potassium

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Geeze...I need to quit posting when I'm getting tired so I don't leave important things out!

My light period is 8 hours. I have it on the ramp timer(15 mons up and down) and it starts coming on at 7:45am then it will go off at 4pm. I want to say it starts to ramp down at 3:45. I can't remember exactly as I'm usually in bed then. Lol.

I've been wondering if I should try the easy green or not since it has a bit more of the ingredients. On one YouTube video...not sure which....I think I heard someone say (maybe even cory) that their crypts were beginning to do what mine are I think and when they switched to easy green they got better.

I do have harder water, pH 8.2. Gh is around 250 (using api's test strips) I think. Closer to 300 than the 150 mark but not quite the 300 color. The kh is around 180. I haven't used the liquid kit in a while but it's usually 12-13 drops for both if I remember right.

Right now I only have one young 3 spot gourami, one mystery snail and a bunch of mts. So not much of a bioload to rely on. I do feed my gourami twice a day most days. Occasionally I don't do the 2nd feeding.

Oh, another thing I did a couple of weeks ago was to wipe the glass top down as it had algae growing on it. That's when the lily perked up more.

I do have the option to of course, set the light on longer, but I also have the option to brighten it as well as I don't have it up all the way. (I can change the whites, reds, greens, blues all individually. Love that.) I believe the white LED's are 6500k. But brightening it may not be good for the gourami since my floating plants don't even take up a quarter of the tank now.

I think right now I've been lucky to not really have problems with it much. I just want faster plant growth! Lol.

 

[Byron]

I just switched to dry ferts.

I was using flourish, then added leafzone and was still getting deficiencies

Flourish itself isn't enough, you need to buy the rest of the bottles, like flourish iron and potassium

Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium contains all required nutrients for aquarium plants with the exception of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen. All the remaining 14 nutrients are in the mix. However, some of them are minimal because, as the name suggests, this is intended as a supplement to naturally-occurring nutrients. Calcium for example is minimal because many areas have sufficient calcium (and magnesium) in the source water. And obviously oxygen, hydrogen and carbon will occur naturally in the aquarium.

The other point that needs making is that the micro-nutrients in this product are in relative proportions to each other, based upon botanical studies of aquatic plant nutrient requirements. The problem with adding random nutrients like iron (in particular) or potassium is that this can throw off the balance. Plants are known to be able to take up some excess of certain nutrients, but when the nutrient is excessively high it can cause the plant to shut down assimilation of other nutrients, causing death of the plant. Iron is particularly dangerous for this.

The Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is an excellent basic supplement for most aquaria that are more low-tech or natural, and with sufficient hard minerals in the source water. It is not especially suitable in high-tech systems because the balance of the macro-nutrients especially will not be sufficient for more intense light and diffused CO2. And it gets very expensive.

Dry fertilizers are fine in high-tech systems, and can be useful in low-tech/natural planted tanks too, depending upon the sources of other nutrients. I don't know the balance of micro-nutrients in dry fertilizers, as it depends presumably upon the brand. I have heard that some are only macro-nutrients, so that is not going to be all that effective, again depending upon the availability of the micro-nutrients from fish load/food.

Adding too much iron when other necessary nutrients are missing can cause algae issues. I've seen it first hand. Same with many other nutrients too.

The starting point in working out plant additives must bee the light. The intensity drives photosynthesis, and if the required nutrients are present, and the light is of adequate spectrum, all should be OK. But too much light, whether intensity or duration, without adequate nutrient availability, will also not benefit the plants and inevitably cause algae problems.

I don't know the light intensity here, but given the "hard" minerals are certainly adequate, there should be no need for adding macro-nutrients like calcium and magnesium. So Flourish Comprehensive should be effective, depending upon the plant species and number, and the fish load (the latter we know is minimal). The iron and potassium in FC are balanced with the others (except the macros as I said). I still think light may be the problem here; balancing the nutrients with the light intensity sometimes takes time.

 

[Toney]

the holes stopped in my ludwigia when I started using the leafzone in addition to the flourish for the extra potassium

 

[NickAu]

crypt leaves started lightening in color

Mine did that about 5 months ago but are still going strong.

As you can see in this photo the tall central bunch is light in color but that bunch is also 30 cm tall. I figure its because they are getting too much light.

I only add 5 drops of Seachem flourish comprehensive about every other water change............ when I remember.

I also do not vacuum the gravel, Kinda hard with that many plants.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I don't want to do dry ferts. Too complicated for what I want. Just an all in one is fine with me for the plants that I have.

Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium contains all required nutrients for aquarium plants with the exception of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen. All the remaining 14 nutrients are in the mix. However, some of them are minimal because, as the name suggests, this is intended as a supplement to naturally-occurring nutrients. Calcium for example is minimal because many areas have sufficient calcium (and magnesium) in the source water. And obviously oxygen, hydrogen and carbon will occur naturally in the aquarium.

The other point that needs making is that the micro-nutrients in this product are in relative proportions to each other, based upon botanical studies of aquatic plant nutrient requirements. The problem with adding random nutrients like iron (in particular) or potassium is that this can throw off the balance. Plants are known to be able to take up some excess of certain nutrients, but when the nutrient is excessively high it can cause the plant to shut down assimilation of other nutrients, causing death of the plant. Iron is particularly dangerous for this.

The Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is an excellent basic supplement for most aquaria that are more low-tech or natural, and with sufficient hard minerals in the source water. It is not especially suitable in high-tech systems because the balance of the macro-nutrients especially will not be sufficient for more intense light and diffused CO2. And it gets very expensive.

Dry fertilizers are fine in high-tech systems, and can be useful in low-tech/natural planted tanks too, depending upon the sources of other nutrients. I don't know the balance of micro-nutrients in dry fertilizers, as it depends presumably upon the brand. I have heard that some are only macro-nutrients, so that is not going to be all that effective, again depending upon the availability of the micro-nutrients from fish load/food.

Adding too much iron when other necessary nutrients are missing can cause algae issues. I've seen it first hand. Same with many other nutrients too.

The starting point in working out plant additives must bee the light. The intensity drives photosynthesis, and if the required nutrients are present, and the light is of adequate spectrum, all should be OK. But too much light, whether intensity or duration, without adequate nutrient availability, will also not benefit the plants and inevitably cause algae problems.

I don't know the light intensity here, but given the "hard" minerals are certainly adequate, there should be no need for adding macro-nutrients like calcium and magnesium. So Flourish Comprehensive should be effective, depending upon the plant species and number, and the fish load (the latter we know is minimal). The iron and potassium in FC are balanced with the others (except the macros as I said). I still think light may be the problem here; balancing the nutrients with the light intensity sometimes takes time.

Thanks Byron. All I know is the white leds are 6500k. But I have then dimmed from full intensity. So far it has worked and I haven't had the algae at all except for on the wisteria. But some of that I think was due to me not on a good weekly schedule of water changes and dosing the flourish.

So, since I have seen some improvement....should I just wait then? I don't want to change something and cause algae problems. Lol. The crypts are getting new leaves, the lily is much better, even one of the anubias is getting new leaves. If I have to replace the swords with something else I'm fine with that. Nick had suguested the temple plant but aquarium co-op hasn't gotten any in yet. So I may look for a different place. And of course I want more floating, which I'm sure will up my need for more flourish.....lol.

But, it is OK to dose it twice a week, right? The 2ml Thursday and 2ml Sunday. Instead of 4ml on Thursday? I need to dig the water lettuce out of the wisteria and see how they are doing. The salvinia is doing great I think, I just want something with longer roots of course. Lol.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Mine did that about 5 months ago but are still going strong.

As you can see in this photo the tall central bunch is light in color but that bunch is also 30 cm tall. I figure its because they are getting too much light.

I only add 5 drops of Seachem flourish comprehensive about every other water change............ when I remember.

I also do not vacuum the gravel, Kinda hard with that many plants.

I don't vaccum the sand either. Just strictly take water out and put more in.

 

[NickAu]

Crypts can be funny, They can melt for no reason, they can be slow growing but once they get going they do so with a vengeance.

Check this out.
What a difference 7 months makes to a planted tank.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I saw that post. Amazing tank! Thanks Nick!

 

[Byron]

I don't want to do dry ferts. Too complicated for what I want. Just an all in one is fine with me for the plants that I have.



Thanks Byron. All I know is the white leds are 6500k. But I have then dimmed from full intensity. So far it has worked and I haven't had the algae at all except for on the wisteria. But some of that I think was due to me not on a good weekly schedule of water changes and dosing the flourish.

So, since I have seen some improvement....should I just wait then? I don't want to change something and cause algae problems. Lol. The crypts are getting new leaves, the lily is much better, even one of the anubias is getting new leaves. If I have to replace the swords with something else I'm fine with that. Nick had suguested the temple plant but aquarium co-op hasn't gotten any in yet. So I may look for a different place. And of course I want more floating, which I'm sure will up my need for more flourish.....lol.

But, it is OK to dose it twice a week, right? The 2ml Thursday and 2ml Sunday. Instead of 4ml on Thursday? I need to dig the water lettuce out of the wisteria and see how they are doing. The salvinia is doing great I think, I just want something with longer roots of course. Lol.

I would wait a bit. It sounds as if the plants are responding to recent changes. We sometimes expect plants to improve overnight, but it can take a few weeks for changes, positive or negative. Over the holidays I deliberately did not use Flourish Comprehensive in any of my tanks one week. By the second week, no changes, so I omitted FC that week too. By the third week, I did spot a few weakenings in the floating plants (these are usually the first to respond, since they are fast growing and thus more affected by any change to light or nutrients), so this week I dosed FC as I had been doing prior to this "experiment." I may see changes next week, or I may not. But it takes time for plants to respond to any change; garden plants are the same.

To your situation, yes you can dose twice a week, but only if needed. I did this for several months a couple years ago, thinking it was necessary, but after I stopped and the plants showed no sign whatsoever of problems, and now two and three years later they are still just as good...I realized I had been overdosing. And that also was what caused the brush algae increase in a couple tanks. I would continue for a few weeks, and if you see signs of weakening, increase the FC a bit. Dosing twice a week a few days apart is probably better than the same amount at one time. But only if deemed necessary.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I would wait a bit. It sounds as if the plants are responding to recent changes. We sometimes expect plants to improve overnight, but it can take a few weeks for changes, positive or negative. Over the holidays I deliberately did not use Flourish Comprehensive in any of my tanks one week. By the second week, no changes, so I omitted FC that week too. By the third week, I did spot a few weakenings in the floating plants (these are usually the first to respond, since they are fast growing and thus more affected by any change to light or nutrients), so this week I dosed FC as I had been doing prior to this "experiment." I may see changes next week, or I may not. But it takes time for plants to respond to any change; garden plants are the same.

To your situation, yes you can dose twice a week, but only if needed. I did this for several months a couple years ago, thinking it was necessary, but after I stopped and the plants showed no sign whatsoever of problems, and now two and three years later they are still just as good...I realized I had been overdosing. And that also was what caused the brush algae increase in a couple tanks. I would continue for a few weeks, and if you see signs of weakening, increase the FC a bit. Dosing twice a week a few days apart is probably better than the same amount at one time. But only if deemed necessary.

Thanks Byron. I will continue the twice a week dosing for now. Before I did my water chage today I looked through my wisteria, and some of it looked like it might be coming back. The salvinia is doing amazing, the water lettuce not as well. But we'll see how it goes. It could still be adjusting to my tank for all I know.

And of course...if my gourami would quit pushing them out of the light.....that might help too! Lol.

 

[Toney]

PPS-Pro system is easy to use and is the least expensive system in comparison to any other fertilizer. It is designed especially for aquascapers who want a system that is performing well, doesn’t need much testing and tweaking and also works with all lights andsubstrates, no water changes and large water changes. Entirely 100% planted aquariums with reasonable fish load.


Nothing hard about weighing a few chemicals, it's just kinda silly buying mostly water

 

[cowgirluntamed]

PPS-Pro system is easy to use and is the least expensive system in comparison to any other fertilizer. It is designed especially for aquascapers who want a system that is performing well, doesn’t need much testing and tweaking and also works with all lights andsubstrates, no water changes and large water changes. Entirely 100% planted aquariums with reasonable fish load.


Nothing hard about weighing a few chemicals, it's just kinda silly buying mostly water

Maybe for you. All I have to do is grab one bottle, measure out a dose and squirt it in. Easy enough for me. To each their own!