Plant advice?

[Byron]

If my plants dont need co2, would it kill them if I put any in?
Some of them I listed grow stronger with a bit of co2 apparently.
I was thinking the liquid kind, but will it harm my other plants?

Plants need 17 nutrients. Some are macro-nutrients, others are micro-nutrients. Provided all 17 are present, and provided the light is of sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis, it will occur. This is how plants grow, as you probably know. As soon as one essential nutrient is missing, photosynthesis will slow. It may stop altogether, depending upon the nutrient, and the light. This is when "problem" algae becomes just that, a problem.

CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient. The fish load, and how much they are fed, contribute to the natural CO2. It can also enter from the air at the surface. If you want a tank of healthy fish that happens to have plants in it, then you are working to establish a low-tech or natural method planted tank. You do not add CO2 in such tanks. There will be natural CO2, and usually more than many assume, but if everything is balanced, adding more of CO2 or any other nutrient is more likely to cause problems than improve plant growth--and problems for the fish as wll as plants/algae. There is evidence that diffused CO2 impacts fish. Adding too much of most nutrients also impacts the fish, some more than others.

"Growing stronger" is a subjective term. CO2 is not likely to make any difference, but it all depends upon the light intensity, duration and all other nutrients being available. It is true than in natural or low-tech systems the CO2 is usually the first nutrient to become depleted. However, the fish are what matter.

So-called liquid carbon is usually a derivative of glutaraldehyde. This is the case with API's CO2 Booster and Seachem's Excel. Glutaraldehyde is used in hospitals to disinfect surgical instruments, in embalming fluid, in anti-freeze, in ship ballasts to kill bacteria. It usually kills some plants when used at stated doses, Vallisneria seems especially sensitive. It will kill algae. Substances dissolved in the tank water will enter the fish's bloodstream and internal organs. Anyone who thinks this is not harmful should think again. This simply makes no sense. It is the same as the suggestion that Covid might be killed by injecting oneself with disinfectant. The mind boggles.

 

[ella777]

Plants need 17 nutrients. Some are macro-nutrients, others are micro-nutrients. Provided all 17 are present, and provided the light is of sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis, it will occur. This is how plants grow, as you probably know. As soon as one essential nutrient is missing, photosynthesis will slow. It may stop altogether, depending upon the nutrient, and the light. This is when "problem" algae becomes just that, a problem.

CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient. The fish load, and how much they are fed, contribute to the natural CO2. It can also enter from the air at the surface. If you want a tank of healthy fish that happens to have plants in it, then you are working to establish a low-tech or natural method planted tank. You do not add CO2 in such tanks. There will be natural CO2, and usually more than many assume, but if everything is balanced, adding more of CO2 or any other nutrient is more likely to cause problems than improve plant growth--and problems for the fish as wll as plants/algae. There is evidence that diffused CO2 impacts fish. Adding too much of most nutrients also impacts the fish, some more than others.

"Growing stronger" is a subjective term. CO2 is not likely to make any difference, but it all depends upon the light intensity, duration and all other nutrients being available. It is true than in natural or low-tech systems the CO2 is usually the first nutrient to become depleted. However, the fish are what matter.

So-called liquid carbon is usually a derivative of glutaraldehyde. This is the case with API's CO2 Booster and Seachem's Excel. Glutaraldehyde is used in hospitals to disinfect surgical instruments, in embalming fluid, in anti-freeze, in ship ballasts to kill bacteria. It usually kills some plants when used at stated doses, Vallisneria seems especially sensitive. It will kill algae. Substances dissolved in the tank water will enter the fish's bloodstream and internal organs. Anyone who thinks this is not harmful should think again. This simply makes no sense. It is the same as the suggestion that Covid might be killed by injecting oneself with disinfectant. The mind boggles.

Okay. I will not get any co2 of any kind.
Can I ask what are the 17 types of nutrients? Or at least how to 'get' them into the tank?
I cant think of the correct words today.

 

[Byron]

Okay. I will not get any co2 of any kind.
Can I ask what are the 17 types of nutrients? Or at least how to 'get' them into the tank?
I cant think of the correct words today.

I will list them below. Some of these are in plentiful supply as is, like oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus and carbon (in balance). Some occur in water changes (especially calcium, magnesium). Most enter via fish food. The fish excrement if allowed to work into the substrate will break down, allowing the plants to use the nutrients. In some tanks, this is all that is needed. We have members here with lovely planted tanks that never get plant additives. But for some of us, especially with very soft water, or small fish loads, this may not be enough. It depends upon the plant species, numbers, fish load/feeding. And the light--brighter light means more nutrients to balance.

Macro-nutrients: calcium, hydrogen, carbon, magnesium, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, potassium, sulphur.
Micro-nutrients: boron, iron, chloride, copper, manganese, nickel, molybdenum, zinc.

Studies have also determined that these nutrients bear a relationship to each other, and excess of "x" may cause serious issues. Heavy metals incude iron, copper, manganese and zinc, and most conditioners detoxify these because of their extreme danger. Iron for example can affect the role of calcium in plant leaves, harming the plant. Iron has been shown to cause toxicity that killed the plants [I had this in one tank both times I added iron beyond what was inb the comprehensive fertilizer)). Iron also contributes to a deficiency of one or two nutrients, zinc I think. The point here is that too much of some will have adverse effects. This is where a balanced comprehensive supplement is safer.

 

[ella777]

I will list them below. Some of these are in plentiful supply as is, like oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus and carbon (in balance). Some occur in water changes (especially calcium, magnesium). Most enter via fish food. The fish excrement if allowed to work into the substrate will break down, allowing the plants to use the nutrients. In some tanks, this is all that is needed. We have members here with lovely planted tanks that never get plant additives. But for some of us, especially with very soft water, or small fish loads, this may not be enough. It depends upon the plant species, numbers, fish load/feeding. And the light--brighter light means more nutrients to balance.

Macro-nutrients: calcium, hydrogen, carbon, magnesium, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, potassium, sulphur.
Micro-nutrients: boron, iron, chloride, copper, manganese, nickel, molybdenum, zinc.

Studies have also determined that these nutrients bear a relationship to each other, and excess of "x" may cause serious issues. Heavy metals incude iron, copper, manganese and zinc, and most conditioners detoxify these because of their extreme danger. Iron for example can affect the role of calcium in plant leaves, harming the plant. Iron has been shown to cause toxicity that killed the plants [I had this in one tank both times I added iron beyond what was inb the comprehensive fertilizer)). Iron also contributes to a deficiency of one or two nutrients, zinc I think. The point here is that too much of some will have adverse effects. This is where a balanced comprehensive supplement is safer.

Okay. My water is hard, is that better for plants?
Once I've got all the plants set up in the tank, should I put fish food in there for the plants?

 

[Byron]

Okay. My water is hard, is that better for plants?

In the sense that this provides calcium and magnesium, yes. Most comprehensive fertilizers are fairly low in these two minrals because most people have them in their water. I don't, so I have to work around this, but you are fine.

Once I've got all the plants set up in the tank, should I put fish food in there for the plants?

You are intending some fast-growing stem plants, so I would use a comprehensive supplement initially, and be read to continue it. I tend to use less for a time and judge the plants' response. No point in dumping excess to get inside the fish. Fish food is not going to do much, it takes a while to break down. Good comprehensive supplements are Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti. You are in the UK, so look for TNC Lite, this would be my choice were I in the UK (not available in NA). It has everything needed, without nitrogen and phosphorus which the fish will provide.