Plant advice?

[ella777]

I'm worried. I've just got a 200l tank and I have no idea what to plant in it. I want plants that dont need co2, easy and shrimp & snail safe. I've got a list of plants I would really love to own
Cryptocoryne Wendtii
Cryptocoryne Willisii
Cryptocoryne Beckettii
Java Moss
Ceratophyllum Demersum
Marimo Moss Balls
Vallisneria Gigantea
Anubias
Hydrocotyle Leucocephala
Homalomena sp. Sekadau
Elodea Densa

I will also get some root tabs and I have some left over tropica fertiliser.
Can anyone tell me which ones of those I should or shouldn't get, and recommend some others that are EASY to care for.

 

[Byron]

I would forget moss balls; these are not moss, but algae. Other plants will be better.

The crypts can be very sensitive, but once established should be OK if left alone. Highly susceptible to being moved, and any change in light, nutrients, pH, GH or temperature. I had varying luck with these over many years.

Anubias and mosses are low light, and thus require less nutrients in balance, so make sure you have floating plants (none are mentioned here), like Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce.

For lower plants I would try the common sword plants. I have moderate light, no CO2, and use tabs for these, and they thrive unbelievably. They are also heavy enough to be safe from almost any plant-eater.

Hydrocotyle is one stem plant that often does very well without brighter light (and more nutrients), also good left floating.

 

[Essjay]

That vallisneria species grows very long leaves. Unless you want them trailing across the surface of the water, choose a smaller species of val.


Be careful where you buy the plants if you want shrimp & snail safe plants. If the seller doesn't say, get them from somewhere else.
Because a species of apple snail was found in a Spanish river, the EU banned all species of apple snail, and any plant imported from outside the EU where snails are endemic have to be treated with snail killer. I know we've left the EU, but I can't see far east plant growers shipping one lot of plants to the EU and a different lot to the UK, so there is a risk that plants from outside the EU on sale in the UK may well have snail killing chemicals on them.
There are a few websites, and even k2aqua on eBay who state that their plants are shrimp/snail safe. (ProShrimp, Horizon Aquatics, Java Plants and Aqua Essentials are shops which sell shrimp/snail safe plants)

 

[ella777]

That vallisneria species grows very long leaves. Unless you want them trailing across the surface of the water, choose a smaller species of val.


Be careful where you buy the plants if you want shrimp & snail safe plants. If the seller doesn't say, get them from somewhere else.
Because a species of apple snail was found in a Spanish river, the EU banned all species of apple snail, and any plant imported from outside the EU where snails are endemic have to be treated with snail killer. I know we've left the EU, but I can't see far east plant growers shipping one lot of plants to the EU and a different lot to the UK, so there is a risk that plants from outside the EU on sale in the UK may well have snail killing chemicals on them.
There are a few websites, and even k2aqua on eBay who state that their plants are shrimp/snail safe. (ProShrimp, Horizon Aquatics, Java Plants and Aqua Essentials are shops which sell shrimp/snail safe plants)

Yes, I've been talking to k2aqua a lot. All of the plants listed are from them and they recommend all of them.
I'm just really confused because people say different things about the same plants and I dont understand what's true and what isnt. I cant seem to find a smaller species, is it bad if they are on the surface?

 

[Byron]

Vallisneria is a fast-growing plant. It needs good light and adequate nutrients, and tends to fare better in harder water because unlike some other plants Vallisneria can use bicarbonates as carbon. Mosses for example cannot, so they rely solely on CO2 (not suggesting any deficit here, just noting that all plants are not the same when it comes to light and nutrients).

"Vallisneria gigantea" is described as originating from Papua New Guinea and the Philippines, but the true species [V. americana, see further] occurs throughout eastern and southeastern Asia, Oceania (Japan) and North and Central America. This species will grow in medium soft to hard, slightly acidic to basic/alkaline water, though the plant will do best in in medium hard to hard water with a good flow. It usually does not do well in soft, acidic water. There is considerable confusion over the nomenclature of this genus, and several different "species" and varieties may be encountered in the literature; one may therefore find the same plant under various names. The subject species V. americana is a case in point.

This species is the largest; some sources give 3-4 feet for the leaf length, but others including Kasselmann (2003) give 2.3 meters (7 feet). There is a wide-leaf (blade 10-25mm wide with 5-9 veins) and a narrow-leaf (up to 10 mm with 3-5 veins) form. The subject species was described under the name Vallisneria gigantea in 1912/1913 by Karl Otto Robert Peter Paul Graebner, a German botanist. According to detailed work, this plant was believed to be Vallisneria americana, var. americana that was (earlier) named by Andre Michaux in 1803. Notwithstanding the meaning of the species epithet, "from America," this species is found in eastern and southeast Asia, North and Central America, and Oceania (including Japan). The name V. gigantea was therefore a synonym, and this species is nevertheless widely seen in the literature under this name.

The tightly-twisted "corkscrew" form remains much smaller than other varieties, the 5 to 10 mm wide leaves attaining up to 30-50 cm (12-20 inches). I had good growth from this plant, notwithstanding my soft water.

 

[ella777]

Vallisneria is a fast-growing plant. It needs good light and adequate nutrients, and tends to fare better in harder water because unlike some other plants Vallisneria can use bicarbonates as carbon. Mosses for example cannot, so they rely solely on CO2 (not suggesting any deficit here, just noting that all plants are not the same when it comes to light and nutrients).

"Vallisneria gigantea" is described as originating from Papua New Guinea and the Philippines, but the true species [V. americana, see further] occurs throughout eastern and southeastern Asia, Oceania (Japan) and North and Central America. This species will grow in medium soft to hard, slightly acidic to basic/alkaline water, though the plant will do best in in medium hard to hard water with a good flow. It usually does not do well in soft, acidic water. There is considerable confusion over the nomenclature of this genus, and several different "species" and varieties may be encountered in the literature; one may therefore find the same plant under various names. The subject species V. americana is a case in point.

This species is the largest; some sources give 3-4 feet for the leaf length, but others including Kasselmann (2003) give 2.3 meters (7 feet). There is a wide-leaf (blade 10-25mm wide with 5-9 veins) and a narrow-leaf (up to 10 mm with 3-5 veins) form. The subject species was described under the name Vallisneria gigantea in 1912/1913 by Karl Otto Robert Peter Paul Graebner, a German botanist. According to detailed work, this plant was believed to be Vallisneria americana, var. americana that was (earlier) named by Andre Michaux in 1803. Notwithstanding the meaning of the species epithet, "from America," this species is found in eastern and southeast Asia, North and Central America, and Oceania (including Japan). The name V. gigantea was therefore a synonym, and this species is nevertheless widely seen in the literature under this name.

The tightly-twisted "corkscrew" form remains much smaller than other varieties, the 5 to 10 mm wide leaves attaining up to 30-50 cm (12-20 inches). I had good growth from this plant, notwithstanding my soft water.

Do I have hard water? I'm pretty sure I do. So this plant would be good? How quickly does it grow?
I think it would be good to shade some of the other plants from the light

 

[ella777]

I would forget moss balls; these are not moss, but algae. Other plants will be better.

The crypts can be very sensitive, but once established should be OK if left alone. Highly susceptible to being moved, and any change in light, nutrients, pH, GH or temperature. I had varying luck with these over many years.

Anubias and mosses are low light, and thus require less nutrients in balance, so make sure you have floating plants (none are mentioned here), like Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce.

For lower plants I would try the common sword plants. I have moderate light, no CO2, and use tabs for these, and they thrive unbelievably. They are also heavy enough to be safe from almost any plant-eater.

Hydrocotyle is one stem plant that often does very well without brighter light (and more nutrients), also good left floating.

I thought the moss balls would be good for my shrimp and snails, apparently they are easy to care for too.
I will get some swords... is that the normal amazon sword?

So I shouldnt get the anubias? I'm pretty sure I have one of those in my tank and it's fine with a lot of light. I'm not quite sure what it is though.
Would it be good to get a val to give the anubias shade?

 

[Essjay]

I would use floating plants for shade, there are several available. k2aqua doesn't always have it in stock, but his listings usually include Ceratopteris cornuta, one of the water sprite species. Everyone else sells C. thalicroides.

I would go with a true moss over moss balls. The balls are more or less smooth while something like Java moss has lots of stems for shrimps to feed off. I have Java moss in my shrimp tank and it's usually full of shrimps. You can see it in my entry in this contest (post #4)

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POLL IS NOW CLOSED :big_boss: PLEASE VOTE! We have 10 awesome tanks entered in Fishforums' August 2022 Tank of the Month contest featuring tanks sized at 16 US gallons and smaller. View all the tanks and descriptions below and then go to poll at the top of this thread, click on your...

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[Byron]

Agree with essjay. As for the Vallisneria, it is fast-growing which is a subjective term, I have never measured growth rates, I just have an understanding of what to expect. My plants remained under 10 inches/25cm so far as I can remember, it was some 10 years ago. They send out runners, and up pop daughter plants that you can leave or pull up or move.

Anubias is OK, with shade or it can form problem algae (black brush is very common in higher lighting).

 

[ella777]

Agree with essjay. As for the Vallisneria, it is fast-growing which is a subjective term, I have never measured growth rates, I just have an understanding of what to expect. My plants remained under 10 inches/25cm so far as I can remember, it was some 10 years ago. They send out runners, and up pop daughter plants that you can leave or pull up or move.

Anubias is OK, with shade or it can form problem algae (black brush is very common in higher lighting).

Okay, I wont get the vallisneria. I think I'll get one anubias and see how that goes, I'll keep it under some floaters.
Do you think 55x water lettuce is enough to cover the space? I dont want the whole surface covered.

I've removed and added some plants to my list:
Bacopa Australis
Bacopa Caroliniana
Microsorum pteropus
Hygrophila Polysperma
Elodea Densa
Cryptocoryne willisii
Anubias Barteri Var Nana
Hydrocotyle Leucocephala
Ceratophyllum Demersum
Water Lettuce
Java Moss

I have also got three plants in my current tank which I will use too.

 

[Byron]

A general comment on selecting plants. The lighting is the first important factor, followed by nutrients. The latter--which includes natural nutrients like CO2 occurring from respiration but more from the decomposition of organics in the substrate, as well as fertilizer supplements be they liquid or substrate tabs--must balance the lighting intensity, then duration. "Problem algae" is usually the guide.

Plants have differing requirements when it comes to the light intensity; photosynthesis will be full out if the light intensity is sufficient to drive it in that plant species, and also provided the nutrients are all available at sufficient levels. There are in very general terms high light requiring plants, moderate light plants, and low light plants. You have several stem plants listed, and these being fast growers means higher light and nutrients. There is overlap, but not all plants will work in any given tank.

I have over the years tried many plants that clearly would not grow under my conditions, so I tossed them and tried something else. I had maybe half a dozen plants that did very well, though not always in any tank, and I stayed with them.

Light over the tank does impact fish. Some will not be colourful under bright light because they are forest fish. They may be seriously impacted, which is why floating plants are almost always to be regarded as "mandatory." This assumes the light is not over bright to begin with.

 

[ella777]

A general comment on selecting plants. The lighting is the first important factor, followed by nutrients. The latter--which includes natural nutrients like CO2 occurring from respiration but more from the decomposition of organics in the substrate, as well as fertilizer supplements be they liquid or substrate tabs--must balance the lighting intensity, then duration. "Problem algae" is usually the guide.

Plants have differing requirements when it comes to the light intensity; photosynthesis will be full out if the light intensity is sufficient to drive it in that plant species, and also provided the nutrients are all available at sufficient levels. There are in very general terms high light requiring plants, moderate light plants, and low light plants. You have several stem plants listed, and these being fast growers means higher light and nutrients. There is overlap, but not all plants will work in any given tank.

I have over the years tried many plants that clearly would not grow under my conditions, so I tossed them and tried something else. I had maybe half a dozen plants that did very well, though not always in any tank, and I stayed with them.

Light over the tank does impact fish. Some will not be colourful under bright light because they are forest fish. They may be seriously impacted, which is why floating plants are almost always to be regarded as "mandatory." This assumes the light is not over bright to begin with.

Okay, I've checked and most of the plants listed are either medium or low, some high but 'can tolerate lower lighting if necessary'
Do you think I should try with these plants, see how it goes and try different ones if these die?

 

[ella777]

Another thing, if my plants dont need

A general comment on selecting plants. The lighting is the first important factor, followed by nutrients. The latter--which includes natural nutrients like CO2 occurring from respiration but more from the decomposition of organics in the substrate, as well as fertilizer supplements be they liquid or substrate tabs--must balance the lighting intensity, then duration. "Problem algae" is usually the guide.

Plants have differing requirements when it comes to the light intensity; photosynthesis will be full out if the light intensity is sufficient to drive it in that plant species, and also provided the nutrients are all available at sufficient levels. There are in very general terms high light requiring plants, moderate light plants, and low light plants. You have several stem plants listed, and these being fast growers means higher light and nutrients. There is overlap, but not all plants will work in any given tank.

I have over the years tried many plants that clearly would not grow under my conditions, so I tossed them and tried something else. I had maybe half a dozen plants that did very well, though not always in any tank, and I stayed with them.

Light over the tank does impact fish. Some will not be colourful under bright light because they are forest fish. They may be seriously impacted, which is why floating plants are almost always to be regarded as "mandatory." This assumes the light is not over bright to begin with.

If my plants dont need co2, would it kill them if I put any in?
Some of them I listed grow stronger with a bit of co2 apparently.
I was thinking the liquid kind, but will it harm my other plants?

 

[Byron]

Okay, I've checked and most of the plants listed are either medium or low, some high but 'can tolerate lower lighting if necessary'
Do you think I should try with these plants, see how it goes and try different ones if these die?

My comments were just general guides on how this works. You may find that some of the stem plants will not do well (could be a light issue, or a nutrient, or both).

 

[ella777]

My comments were just general guides on how this works. You may find that some of the stem plants will not do well (could be a light issue, or a nutrient, or both).

Is there any specific root tabs you recommend? I found some pretty cheap ones on eBay, they dont contain anything harmful to the water or fish. I heard sometimes they contain ammonia?