Planning for 38-gallon community tank, looking for advice!

[xxtarajean]

Oh okay that makes sense. I did have them in with various groups of tetras over the years that I had them a long time ago and it worked out well (two of them lived to 10 years and the third lived to 15) but that must have been a rare case haha. Plus it was a smaller and more shallow tank. I do still have that old tank kicking around somewhere so maybe I'll set that up as a frog-only tank down the road!

I would forget frogs for this tank. If you want them, get another, frog only tank.

I too have had adfs before - they shared a tank with a betta - and never again. It was a nightmare trying to get food to them. I had to construct a frog feeding station out of a terracotta plant pot but the betta still managed to get inside and eat all the frogs' food. I eventually set up my quarantine tank, split the filter media and moved the frogs into the QT.
If the tank is really 25 inches tall, that is a long was for an adf to swim to reach the surface.

 

[xxtarajean]

Thanks! I'm a huge animal lover so making sure my tank community is going to be as happy and healthy as possible is very important to me! I wasn't sure about the angelfish, someone else suggested it as I wanted one of the middle-top fish species to be a bit bigger sort of as a "statement fish" if you will lol so I added it to the list. Maybe we'll just go with the two tetras and the corys, or one tetra, the corys and the bristlenose. I don't actually have my test kit yet but according the the internet, my city's water has a general pH of 7 and the hardness varies anywhere from 4-26. Can't find any other info unfortunately so I won't know until I test it. I'll be sure to test my tap water and the tank water once I get the kit next week and monitor it from there. We won't be putting the fish in for several weeks; I just wanted to get it set up, get the plants in, and get the cycle started.

Welcome to TFF! I really appreciate that you inform yourself before buying any fish

No to the frogs (slow eaters, difficult to feed in a community tank) and no to the Angel fish (tank too small).

We don't have any water parameters yet?

So general advice for a tank of this size is 1-3 species. Less is more considering number of species! It is much better instead to have a decent sized group of any shoaling species. It is better for the fish and it also looks better than a mixed group of fish.

 

[Byron]

Earlier in this thread the water parameters were given as GH 7 dH, and pH 7, so until we have different values I'm assuming those are close.

To your latest fish species ideas, I agree with others that angelfish is not advisable, and same for the aquatic frogs.

I would also caution on the bloodfins. The species is probably Aphyocharax rathbuni, which seems to be the usual one with the common name "bloodfin," though it might be Aphyocharax anisitsi. Both as you can see are in the same genus, Aphyocharax, and all the species in this genus are prone to nip fins; some species are much worse than others. But never combine them with any sedate or long-fin fish, as that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. So going back to the list in post #12, the bloodfins would almost certainly nip the angelfish to death, and likely chew off the legs of the frogs, in no time.

Now, with the neon tetras, cories, and pleco, they might be OK in a largish group, say 9-12. Personally I would not, but rather look for a fish that will have less chance of causing problems.

 

[xxtarajean]

Okay so now I'm thinking to start we'll just go with the pleco, 10 corys, and 12 neons. If we were to just do those could we do one angelfish as well or would the tank still be too small? Are the neons or corys nippy?

Also, sorry for the confusion on the water: I don't actually have my test kit yet but according the the internet, my city's water has a general pH of 7 and the hardness varies anywhere from 4-26. Can't find any other info unfortunately so I won't know until I test it when I get the kit next week. What I mentioned in my OP is what I thought I would need from looking at the needed levels for the fish on the original list.

Earlier in this thread the water parameters were given as GH 7 dH, and pH 7, so until we have different values I'm assuming those are close.

To your latest fish species ideas, I agree with others that angelfish is not advisable, and same for the aquatic frogs.

I would also caution on the bloodfins. The species is probably Aphyocharax rathbuni, which seems to be the usual one with the common name "bloodfin," though it might be Aphyocharax anisitsi. Both as you can see are in the same genus, Aphyocharax, and all the species in this genus are prone to nip fins; some species are much worse than others. But never combine them with any sedate or long-fin fish, as that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. So going back to the list in post #12, the bloodfins would almost certainly nip the angelfish to death, and likely chew off the legs of the frogs, in no time.

Now, with the neon tetras, cories, and pleco, they might be OK in a largish group, say 9-12. Personally I would not, but rather look for a fish that will have less chance of causing problems.

 

[Byron]

Okay so now I'm thinking to start we'll go with the pleco, 10 corys, and 12 neons. If we were to just do those could we do one angelfish as well or would the tank still be too small? Are the neons or corys nippy?

Last questions first...cories do not have teeth, so they will not be nipping anyone. Neon tetra do have teeth, quite a lot actually, like all characins, but neons tend to use them for eating and not nipping. However...they can be "encouraged" to nip fins by placing them in too small a group, enticing them with sedate fish or fish with flowing fins (cichlids, gourami, Betta as examples).

On the angelfish...this is a shoaling species. Angelfish live in groups and they develop an hierarchy. Provided there are sufficient of them, this rarely results in problems; but they need at least five, in large tanks. This provides what they "expect," because this is programmed into their DNA. While some do keep a lone angelfish in a tank with other fish, I do not advise it, simply because this is not natural for the fish and as responsible aquarists we should aim to provide what the fish find natural, rather than our inaccurate desires. A bonded pair used to breed is a different issue.

With the numbers in this post, you have space for other species, so keep researching. As one suggestion, since you have lower level fish (neons, cories, pleco all tend to remain in the lower third to lower half of the aquarium) and additional fish should preferably be upper level to spread things out...what about hatchetfish? The smaller species are in the genus Carnegiella, and among these is the popular Marble Hatchetfish, Carnegiella strigata. This species is seen more often than most of the others seem to be. A group of 9-12 here. Another s[pecies that is especially beautiful is the Platinum or Finspot Hatchetfish, Thoracocharax stellatus. This is a tad larger, but still no more than 1.5 inches usually. It tends to be much more active than the Carnegiella species, and remains (except when feeding) about 2-3 inches below the surface (Carnegiella remain at the surface except on very rare occasions). The regular interaction among the fish in a shoal of this species does add interest, and their species name in Latin stellatus means starry or set with stars.

 

[xxtarajean]

I definitely saw hatchets at one of the fish shops we went to so I think we will go with those! Thanks I really sincerely appreciate all of the advice!

Last questions first...cories do not have teeth, so they will not be nipping anyone. Neon tetra do have teeth, quite a lot actually, like all characins, but neons tend to use them for eating and not nipping. However...they can be "encouraged" to nip fins by placing them in too small a group, enticing them with sedate fish or fish with flowing fins (cichlids, gourami, Betta as examples).

On the angelfish...this is a shoaling species. Angelfish live in groups and they develop an hierarchy. Provided there are sufficient of them, this rarely results in problems; but they need at least five, in large tanks. This provides what they "expect," because this is programmed into their DNA. While some do keep a lone angelfish in a tank with other fish, I do not advise it, simply because this is not natural for the fish and as responsible aquarists we should aim to provide what the fish find natural, rather than our inaccurate desires. A bonded pair used to breed is a different issue.

With the numbers in this post, you have space for other species, so keep researching. As one suggestion, since you have lower level fish (neons, cories, pleco all tend to remain in the lower third to lower half of the aquarium) and additional fish should preferably be upper level to spread things out...what about hatchetfish? The smaller species are in the genus Carnegiella, and among these is the popular Marble Hatchetfish, Carnegiella strigata. This species is seen more often than most of the others seem to be. A group of 9-12 here. Another s[pecies that is especially beautiful is the Platinum or Finspot Hatchetfish, Thoracocharax stellatus. This is a tad larger, but still no more than 1.5 inches usually. It tends to be much more active than the Carnegiella species, and remains (except when feeding) about 2-3 inches below the surface (Carnegiella remain at the surface except on very rare occasions). The regular interaction among the fish in a shoal of this species does add interest, and their species name in Latin stellatus means starry or set with stars.

 

[Jake3030]

Another option could be zebra danios.

 

[hobby5]

Another option could be zebra danios.

No. Way too active swimmers for that tank size.

 

[xxtarajean]

So we tested the water today and after only three days and one ~30% water change yesterday morning these are the levels we're sitting at:
ammonia just above 0
gh ~7
kh ~9
ph 6.5-7
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
Is it just me or do these numbers seem too good to be true after such a short amount of time? We do have quite a few plants (4 different kinds of rooted, java moss, and 2 floating) and have been crushing small amounts of flake food and algae wafers into the water... Or does this just mean that we haven't hit an ammonia spike yet? I don't know too much about this as it's my first time setting up a tank from scratch on my own.

 

[Byron]

So we tested the water today and after only three days and one ~30% water change yesterday morning these are the levels we're sitting at:
ammonia just above 0
gh ~7
kh ~9
ph 6.5-7
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
Is it just me or do these numbers seem too good to be true after such a short amount of time? We do have quite a few plants (4 different kinds of rooted and 2 floating) and have been crushing small amounts of flake food and algae wafers into the water... Or does this just mean that we haven't hit an ammonia spike yet? I don't know too much about this as it's my first time setting up a tank from scratch on my own.

To answer the question...with live plants that are growing and include some fast growing species (such as floating) you should never see ammonia above zero, nor nitrite above zero. The plants will use the ammonia occurring from fish, food, etc. [Now, if you dumped in a quantity of pure ammonia, obviously this would change, but that would likely kill the plants.] Nitrate may in time appear, depending upon the fish, but it will remain very low, which is good for fish.

I would not add fish food of any sort. Tis will add minimal ammonia but decomposing food is polluting in a sense. If you had some snails, like the small harmless but extremely beneficial ones such as Malaysian Livebearing or bladder/pond snails, it would be less of an issue as they would eat the food and break it down faster.

What would be better is a comprehensive plant supplement. Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti. These contain all necessary nutrients, including some ammonium (the Flourish does, FlorinMulti does not but that is not significant). Without fish present, this would feed the plants. Once you start adding fish, this may or may not be necessary. I'd want to know the plant species.

 

[xxtarajean]

I'm spacing on some of the names right now; I'll attach photos. The ones we have for sure are 3 corkscrew vallisneria, 2 frogbit, and some spiky java moss. Then I believe 2 bunches of moneywort, 5 amazon swords, and an anubias. Can't remember the name of the curly floating one right now... Will check. Those have been pretty brown since we got them (pretty sure she gave me the worst-looking ones) but I'm hoping to save them. If anything the tank smells better than it did yesterday so I don't think they're rotting, just not doing so well. The "grass" in the front is a fake aquarium plant that I cut into 3. I'll probably look at getting something real to put in the front at some point or maybe try to coax the moss towards the front to attach to those decorations.

You'll notice we got impatient with the eucalyptus root lol. Wanted to get the moss on so I'll just keep checking to see if it's still buoyant and take the stone out once it's fully waterlogged.

Maybe we will go get some snails this week? We were planning on getting some anyway (looking at mystery snail(s) and/or zebra nerite snails). Possibly one of the fish like the neon tetras or is it too soon?

To answer the question...with live plants that are growing and include some fast growing species (such as floating) you should never see ammonia above zero, nor nitrite above zero. The plants will use the ammonia occurring from fish, food, etc. [Now, if you dumped in a quantity of pure ammonia, obviously this would change, but that would likely kill the plants.] Nitrate may in time appear, depending upon the fish, but it will remain very low, which is good for fish.

I would not add fish food of any sort. Tis will add minimal ammonia but decomposing food is polluting in a sense. If you had some snails, like the small harmless but extremely beneficial ones such as Malaysian Livebearing or bladder/pond snails, it would be less of an issue as they would eat the food and break it down faster.

What would be better is a comprehensive plant supplement. Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti. These contain all necessary nutrients, including some ammonium (the Flourish does, FlorinMulti does not but that is not significant). Without fish present, this would feed the plants. Once you start adding fish, this may or may not be necessary. I'd want to know the plant species.

 

[Byron]

I would wait until you see signs of growth (new leaves and plants) from the Frogbit.which could be just days. My mind has gone blank on that other floating plant, will come to me later probably. A small bottle of the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement wouldn't hurt; make sure it is exactly the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium, as they make several products under the Flourish name. Small bottle will do, it is very concentrated.

A small pack of Flourish Tabs would help the swords too. The 10-tab package. One between the swords, or initially one next to each; another in 3 months or so. Makes quite a difference in swords.

 

[xxtarajean]

The roots have definitely gotten longer on both of the types of plants, particularly the frogbit; one of them has a small shoot coming out of it that has gotten bigger for sure as well. They've been in there a couple of days now.

I would wait until you see signs of growth (new leaves and plants) from the Frogbit.which could be just days. My mind has gone blank on that other floating plant, will come to me later probably. A small bottle of the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement wouldn't hurt; make sure it is exactly the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium, as they make several products under the Flourish name. Small bottle will do, it is very concentrated.

A small pack of Flourish Tabs would help the swords too. The 10-tab package. One between the swords, or initially one next to each; another in 3 months or so. Makes quite a difference in swords.

 

[Essjay]

The smaller leaved floating plant looks like a species of Salvinia. In the past I have had what was sold as S. natans but looked more like S. auriculata, and on another occasion S. minima, but neither of mine looked quite the same as the one in your photo.

I found that mine went brown when water dripped on it from inside the hood, them the tank lights shone on the wet leaves. It was always worse in hot weather. Eventually it all died and I replaced it with water sprite.

 

[xxtarajean]

Ah, that makes sense as at the store they were in a huge tank with a custom filter that caused most of them to go around in circles and underneath the large amount of water flow. They seem to be mostly staying in the back left corner so far so maybe they'll perk up. If not, I'll replace it with something.

The smaller leaved floating plant looks like a species of Salvinia. In the past I have had what was sold as S. natans but looked more like S. auriculata, and on another occasion S. minima, but neither of mine looked quite the same as the one in your photo.

I found that mine went brown when water dripped on it from inside the hood, them the tank lights shone on the wet leaves. It was always worse in hot weather. Eventually it all died and I replaced it with water sprite.