Planning a 750L (200 gal) freshwater tank

[context]

Hello everyone,
so let me start by saying I am not completely new to the hobby, I had a Juwel Rio 180, like 5 years ago with malawi cichlids. Now I moved to my own house and I decided to go BIG this time (as much as space allows)
So the viewing tank will be 200x66x60 cm (approximately 80x25x23 inch) which should be around 750liter (200 gallons). I have somehow decided for freshwater, but I am not 100% convinced, I might go for saltwater if you convince me

I want a bare minimum in the living area, where the display tank will be, therefore my idea is to run the hoses (pipes) to basement (2m (6ft) vertical and 5m (15ft) horizontal), where I will easily do water changes (maybe automated), make any filtration I want and heat the water. In the display tank I might put some power head (wave maker) I assume it will be needed. Inside I plan to have a 3D background with some rocks and/or wood and thin layer of some sand. Minimum or no plants with a reason to minimize maintenance in the display tank. Aquaponics in basement is an option later.
Now that you know the basic idea, I have several questions or areas where I would need help. Stocking is not decided yet, I want to plan a system to handle anything I decide to put in over the following years (guppies, cichlids, discus, angels, axolotls, betta...)

1. What filtration to choose? As mentioned above, the filtration will be done in basement. There is not much air circulation, specially during winter, so I do not want the humidity to rise too high. I also want to heat the water in the basement, add air stone if needed and UV lamp.
   1. Fluidized (tumbler) - usually with K2 plastic filter media. It should be most efficient, but due to the humidity it is not my favorite.
   2. Canister filter - I would probably need 2 top of the line Fluval FX6, because of the height difference to ensure proper circulation. To many pipes, I don't see an option to do water changes in the basement using only canisters. Maybe you will give me an easy solution? Is there a way to add a heater? I seen some filter come with UV lamp.
   3. Sump filter - easy and quick pre-filter change in seconds, additional water volume, easy water changes, room for all additional equipment. This is currently my favorite. Is there someone to help me plan it, what volume, compartments (what to put in each), how big the holes below compartments need to be, etc..? What diameter hoses do I need to run from display tank to the basement (5cm/2inch each)? Did I forget something?
   4. Interior, hang on back and sponge is not an option
   5. any other option?
2. How to organize outlets from tank to basement? Remember, I want it silent in the living room!
   1. 4 holes in the bottom (or side): in case of sump
      1. primary output
      2. secondary "overflow" to make the primary silent
      3. drainage
      4. return
   2. default canister input/output with longer hoses in case of canister filter
   3. hang-on-back is not an option
   4. other options?
3. Plan a stand. I will weld together a steel stand, how big/thick the material should be? how often to put top 'H braces', on top I will probably give some wood and a purpose foam? The stand will be behind a sofa, so right now I don't care how it looks as it will not be visible, later I might wrap it in some wood if we rearrange the room
4. How to stock it? I would prefer discus, but I read they need too much water changes regularly. So the second option, similarly big and nice looking are Angel fish. Other option is hundreds of small fishes like guppy, molly, glass fish with 1 or 2 betta maybe with some shrimps. How would you stock it? Please give me some ideas

I see this as a project, that I want to plan ahead and plan it very thoroughly, as any mistakes will not be easy to fix later. Please comment

 

[mcordelia]

This sounds like a really exciting project!

I would personally be a little bit leery about pumping water to/from the basement, I think I would instead consider a sump underneath the tank in the stand. I think if you line it with foam on the outside, it will cut down on vibrations, will will make it virtually silent. I think it is reasonable to consider an automated water replacement system that comes from the basement, but I think your heat losses through the tubing would be too much to get any benefit of having the heaters in the basement, or even pumping water back and forth over that distance.

Back when I used to have my 55gallon, I used to gravel vac/do water changes directly into the drain in the basement (the tank was right next to a staircase, so I just had a loooooooooooong tube). This worked really well, and gave me tremendous suction in the gravel vac so water changes were very fast.

If you want to go for the discus tank, you can potentially set up an automated water change system, which might work really well for the discus. That's assuming you have a water source in the basement you can hook into. I think angels for a community tank will be a very solid choice, and are less fussy than discus. You also have a wider selection of tank mates available to you, since the temperature doesn't need to be as high.

There's a thread on the forums about freshwater sumps that has had some recent activity, I'll see if I can find a link to it for you. Also if you read up on threads by @clambert122 he recently set up an automated water change system which is pretty dope.


edit: here is the link to the freshwater sump thread: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/anyone-running-a-sump-for-their-freshwater.465814/

 

[clambert122]

Here's a cut and paste from another thread on how I built my auto water change system. I use a sump filter system.



My setup went as follows.

Equipment

X1 Neptune FFM ATK ( I chose this because I plan to move to an Apex controller at some point. But any ATK system should be fine I'm sure. )
X1 LiterMeter III 3 stage pump ( its older, and I'm sure there are better options on the market today. But it can move a pretty large amount of water in a day, pretty quietly. I had it moving 30 gallons a day in and out of my 150 gallon a little bit back when I had to treat for Ick )
X1 15 gallon reservoir. I bought mine, but you can build one easily enough.
X2 Kaomer X1 Bluetooth Microdoser. ( I don't like these pumps, as they do not remember their programming if the power gets reset )
X1 3 way Osmosis kit with long hoses.
A lot of hosing.


My literMeter has 2 pumps hooked up to it currently. All of my water gets pumped in / out of my sump under the tank.
1 pump has a hose into the sump, and then empties into a nearby sink I was able to route the hose to the sink somewhat discreetly.
1 pump has a hose in the sump, and the other end pulls from the 15 gallon reservoir next to the tank.

I generally set the amount I pump back into the tank 2 liters less per day than I pump out of the tank. So if I add 8 liters a day, I remove 10 liters a day. The water level in the sump will gradually lower below the ATK's activation level, and fill the sump back up. I set the amount I pump into the tank lower than the amount I take out so that, if over time, the flow rates get off just a little, it wont overfill my sump.

I use one microdoser to add water conditioner to the reservoir, and one adds plant food to the sump.

I have to manually add the water atm to the reservoir until I can do a little more handy work. I just have to screw the Osmosis kit hose into the sink and turn the water on. And then pay attention to make sure I don't overflow the reservoir.

I want to install a Y valve under the sink so I can just divert water. Pretty sure I can use a little robot called a PushBot ( a popular home automation robot ) to move the switch back and forth for me. Then ill move the Osmosis kit under the sink, and just have a hose that comes out of a hole I drill right in the corner below the booze.

Then I can just measure the flow rate of the water. Figure out how much the flow rate is and how long it takes to fill up the reservoir, and then automate a routine in google home to just turn the water for it on at a specific time, based on the amount i have going in and out of the tank on a daily basis.


Disclaimer, I am an engineer by trade, and feel an innate need to overcomplicate everything.

 

[FFGuest6357]

Disclaimer, I am an engineer by trade, and feel an innate need to overcomplicate everything.

I’m an engineer at heart, and my wife hates that I over complicate things.

I’ll throw my 2 cents in real quick, if you’re intent on running plumbing to the floor below, I would inxnay the idea of canister filters, that’s a lot of stress to put those motors under to pump water back up 12-18 feet depending on ceiling and stand height.

you would be better served using a sump system and over sizing your pump to push the water up that height. Again, if you’re intent on having the filtration on the floor below.

it’s better to have the sump under the tank and part of the stand.

Finally, as a carpenter, I will bow down to the strength of steel, but I always prefer a stand made of wood ?

 

[context]

Thanks to all of you for the replies.
I am more certain now to go with freshwater and sump setup.

@mcordelia sump under the tank is a no-go, not only for noise reasons. Tank will be sandwiched between a wall and sofa, stand will not be visible, actually it will only be visible/accessible on one side (the smaller one). Therefore I don't want to have anything under there, except for same valves to open/close/regulate the flow. As I described above (I also draw a simple sketch, side view of my house; blue=tank, brown=sump, green=barrel for de-chlorination, top-offs and overflow), the vertical difference is about the same as if the sump would be directly under the tank, horizontally there is a difference which I will compensate with a stronger pump. I was not thinking a lot about vacuuming, I guess I could re-purpose the drainage hole with some underwater attachment to complete this task.




I did not think about heat losses in the tubing. One solution is to increase the heating for 1 or 2 degrees to compensate that, other option I also see possible is put the heaters behind the 3D background. I think this is something to be decided on the run, and not over-think it now. Also thanks for the sump thread, nice conversation there. What I was looking for is some recommendations for the size, number of compartments (with spacing, overflows, underflow dimensions etc). Or am I overcomplicating and a simple 3 compartment 80L (20 gal) does the trick?

@clambert122 your setup is really nice, I will have to come up with something similar for evaporation reasons I see. I will have the sump under staircase in the basement, and I believe another 200L (50 gal) barrel would fit in the back, which I would need to top up bi-weekly or monthly. Maybe lift the sump by 1m (3 ft) and run an overflow back to the barrel for case of electric outage (see sketch above). I know I will try to avoid controllers, robots, computers, etc... I am a software engineer, but not very comfortable at this hardware stuff. Maybe just lacking experience.

@Naterjm thank for confirming the sump option. I can do steel or wood stand DIY, I know there are pros and cons to both of them, maybe I am a bit biased towards steel, because I would need smaller dimension of material to achieve the same strength. Would a stand with 6 legs be sufficient, or shall I better go with 8 legs to be safe?

The biggest question now is still the sump (what size, compartment arrangement) and how big the hoses should be.
Also stocking ideas are appreciated

 

[ClownLurch]

I hope you’ve got long arms.