Pitbulls and other violent breeds

In light of Canada's recent ban on pitbulls because of their violent nature, my question is, what sh

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  • 1) A ban on such breeds (this involves no new dogs to the country via breeding or importing)

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I have had all kinds of so called "dangerous dogs" and i believe that they are only as bad as the owner that trains them. My pit bull :rip: used to let the kids crawl all over her and often played of the lead with other dogs with no problem at all. You're right i think there should be classes for responsable owners and they should be registered dogs and owners.
 
Haiku said:
Very good link Haiku! Easy to see how different dogs can be mistaken !

I'm very hesitant to give my opinion on the Pitbull situation because it's a touchy subject - but will say this much:
Certain breeds have a greater inherent tendency towards aggressiveness than others. Yes, you can take a newborn pup from the most vicious fighter killer pitbull and bring it up as a family pet - though due to the breeding this dog (pup) will always have an inherent tendency towards aggressiveness too. It has a great deal to do with how a pup is raised, but also a very large factor of breeding.

Saying that, I do not think that this breed should be culled completely, however license & heavy license fees should apply if you wish to keep such a dog. Perhaps also enforced with a 3rd party liability insurance.

The idea of license enforcement in conjunction with training will not work. Who will enforce this ? Who will pay for the resources to enforce this ? :/
It’s a “nice” idea but I cannot see it working. However saying that, I think that all large breed dogs should be taken to basic training classes for at least 6 months.
 
I do think it's sad that we've started banning breeds of dogs. Owners of pitbulls and pitbull 'type' dogs will just move on to other breeds (ie german shephards) for thier status symbol and the ball will just keep rolling :sad: However, I do believe that something must be done. Often times the dogs involved in the killing/mauling of children were family pets, described as 'sweet and soft as a kitten'.

I do understand that some of the smaller dogs such as cockers, terriers etc have more reported incidents of biting, however you cannot really compare a 20 pound cocker who you can kick off easily enough to an 85+ pound pitbull who clamps down and will not let go. I've heard cases of it taking 5 adults tackling the dog to get him off the child :crazy:

The idea of mandatory registration and training is interesting, however very unrealistic. Registration of all dogs is already mandatory here in Ontario. Training would mean nothing. An owner could take a 10 week course with the dog, but still go home and do what he wants with their dog. That won't change anything plus who is going to ensure that training was completed??

It's a tough situation all around. My dog was attacked last month by a pitbull - at that minute I was soooo happy that the ban was in place and can't wait until they all need to wear muzzles in public.
 
boozybears said:
Often times the dogs involved in the killing/mauling of children were family pets, described as 'sweet and soft as a kitten'.
I do understand concerns like these and I wanted to just give a bit of insight as pertains to this. The sweet family pet turning into a raging mauler is what we hear about the most because of the media. You can bet the media sniffs down and highly publicizes these types of incidents when they happen. I also don't believe that all these cases had no instigation i.e. the child harassing the sweet family pet.

You are correct that the actual bite of bully breeds can be more severe than the bites of small dogs, but factual research and statistics show that they do not attack and bite more than many other breeds. I believe the facts given from that flash movie were that they were responsible for 1.89% of bites in one year, and that on a list of 100 breeds judged most likely to bite, they were 4th from the bottom of that list, labs being higher on the list (it was based on bite statistics).

Anyway, keep in mind that if the media covered every dog attack its family or children, pit bulls would not seem nearly so singled out and people would not get the wrong idea that they bite/attack/turn on people more often than most breeds.

I would say other dogs and small animals are more in danger around pits, as well as other breeds with a high prey drive (i.e. huskies), that is something that has been bred into them very strongly. It's something that can be helped with selective breeding for peaceful temperment and good socialization as a pup. As you said though, that is nearly impossible to enforce. However I still strongly feel that a breed ban is a very wrong way to "control" these situations.
 
Haiku said:
Oh boy... don't get me going on breed bans.  Suffice it to say I am totally and completely against breed specific legislation.  I believe BREEDERS and BREEDING is what should be addressed.  It is people who BREED these dogs to fight and/or be aggressive that needs to be stopped.  The breeds are NOT "naturally" violent.  It is the ill-bred, ill treated dogs that have violent potentials.  A special license to breed that includes education and regular inspections of the breeding situation etc, with laws to spay/neuter all other dogs, would be ideal. 

As far as I know, pit bulls (which sadly includes many different "bully" breeds) have only been banned in Ontario thus far in Canada, not all of Canada.

This flash movie sums it up well as pertains to pit bulls (WARNING, includes graphic images):
http://www.pitbullproblem.tk/

Edited to say, I'm not angry at the poster, I just have strong feelings as pertains to this issue.  I reread my post and I didn't want it to sound like a rant against the poster.
Great comments Haiku in this thread. Informative, well thought out, presented repectfully towards others with opposite veiwpoint, but most off all 100% accurate. Thank You.

Blockhead Bulldogs-FAMILY dogs, with a little dog showing on the side.


edited for spelling correction
 
Well, I voiced my opinion on this on another forum so I guess I can just repeat it here.
Like someone already mentioned, banning pitbulls is not going to stop stupid people from fighting them. The only thing it's going to do is punish the responsible owners that love these dogs. I believe a part of Miami has a ban on these dogs except if they catch you with a pit they put it to sleep. So you have a nice loving pitbull and they take it away from you and put it to sleep, therefore destroying the loving pits that there are? That just seems stupid. Sure, they also euthanize the pits that have been fought but why punish a responsible owner for some felons actions?
I don't agree with people that say that pitbulls are bred to be aggressive. They were bred to fight DOGS...not people. Pits (like any other dog) are great dogs as long as they are SOCIALIZED. This means letting them meet other dogs, other types of animals, people (kids, males, females, elders) when they are young. When pits are socialized they can live pretty well with other dogs. This being true only if the pit was NEVER fought.
I know a lot of people have had bad experiences with medium/large breed dogs and people say that they cause the most damage, which is not neccessarily true. It's true that a small dog cannot kill a teenager or an adult but it's not true that it can't do it to a child. I've heard of a pomeranian (sp?) that mauled a baby and the baby died a few hours later at the hospital (it was in a news article but of course since it's not a pit or any other large breed it didn't make it on TV). When I was little I was attacked by a small dog (too young to remember what type it was) and the only reason it stop biting me was because my dad went outside...it only stopped biting me so it can bark at my dad. I had to get stitches because of that. Then when I was 15 a chihuahua bit my leg. It wouldn't let go. I had to drag it back to where it lived and yelled at his owner to keep her dog enclosed...she didn't learn from that since she let that dog go on my friend and I. I think she learned a lesson when the dog got run over a year later (not from me of course). My brother was almost attacked by a terrier. He only stopped running after him when I came and threw something by him. I'm not trying to say that small breeds are the ones that should be banned. My point of this is that pits are not the only ones attacking. They are just the only ones people hear from because they are easy to pick on. And actually, in comparison, my boyfriend's dog (a labrador retriever) is more aggressive to us than his cousin's pitbull.
I also think that owners should be forced to get licenses for these dogs but I know it will never happen. Why bother doing all this work on a breed that criminals use to fight? Just ban them and there wont be any work to be done...right? :rolleyes: (If it's not obvious, I was being sarcastic ;) )
 
I'm not getting into this bebate of wether or not it is right or wrong
but reading these posts and (some)links, and you wonder why I have
cynophobia

(goes to cuddle his loveing, soft, nice cats)
 
I'm going to make a guess and say fear of dogs, but I didn't look it up, so don't take my word on it.

And I agree with everything you said about small dogs often times doing a lot of damage, especially on children. Yes, a pit will probably do more damage than a pomeranian on an infant, but at the end of the day, the child is dead either way, isn't it? I saw that article about the pom as well, including pictures of the poor baby. :no: It was horrible.
That said, the only dog that ever gave me stitches was a cocker spaniel mix. I was out walking her, and she found a bone. I didn't try to take it from her or even get near her with it, but the second she found it, she started snarling at me like crazy. It was a retractable leash so I gave her a lot of room and pretended to ignore her while she ate it, but she very suddenly put it down, charged at me, and sunk her teeth into the back of my leg. She would NOT let go for anything; I was shaking my leg and yelling and batting her on the head with the leash - the dog was relentless. I finally had to (and I felt bad, but I was getting rather injured) punch her in her little nose, at which point she finally yelped and let go. I got her back to the kennel without a further incident, but man - talk about food agressive! That is a dangerous dog in my mind; if she has food even within her sight range she'll attack, not just if you try to touch or take it!
I also was attacked by two cairn terriers while taking a walk outside of my college. They jumped the short little fence the owner had and each latched onto a leg. Luckily I had big boots on, but if I hadn't, I'd have definately been hurt, because one of them ripped my pant leg all to hell. I yelled at the dogs and shook them off, and luckily the owner heard the commotion and called them off, or I'd have probably had to hurt at least the one so it'd leave me alone. I gave him a good stern yelling about fence height, that's for sure!

Side note... why don't they ban agressive cat breeds if they will dog breeds? Several breeds of cats, particularly the wild hybrid kind (I'd like to strangle everyone who breeds them because wild animals and mixes of them are NOT suitible for captivity), are often very agressive by nature. While cat bites probably won't kill you from trauma, cat saliva has harmful bacteria that can cause deadly infections; the rate of infection from cat bites is about 3x's that of dogs. People have needed fingers amputated, surgeries to drain abcesses, etc. from cat bites. I know a woman who almost died from one that went to the bone, because she got a bone infection that lead to septicemia! Cats have all four feet and their teeth to use as weapons. And they go for the face by nature. In veterinary practice, we consider them much more dangerous than dogs due to their agression and unpredictable nature. My mom needed stitches and shots after a feral cat scaled her leg, biting and slashing all the way up, to attack another cat she was carrying, and I don't know if anyone read the post where I mentioned Ben, a cat at a shelter I worked at, but he gave many people stitches and they will probably be euthanizing him. I even know someone who had to be rushed to the hospital because a cat bit into her wrist and hit a vital artery - she nearly bled to death from a cat bite.
I guess what I'm trying to point out here is that any animal can be dangerous. What are we going to do, ban every animal that could potentially bite, scratch, or infect a human? I guess we'll all just have to look into the joys of snailkeeping.
 
I'm actually terrified of dogs also but sometimes I do get scared of the occassional cat. I volunteer at a shelter and I'm only at the catery. But what I've noticed is that there are far more reports of cat bites than there are on dog bites. Of course one thing that shelter does that I don't agree with is euthanize all pits that come through the door. One time a family came in wanting to get rid of their two pits. Another family there wanted them but it's supposed to be illegal to give dogs to other people there. I pulled them aside and told them to go outside with me. The family that wanted the dogs had two teenage daughters and they really got along with both dogs. The dogs didn't have any scars on them so I told them that if they wanted to give the dog away that they would have a better chance of the dogs being happy if they gave them to a family since the shelter puts them to sleep. They don't even tell the people that they euthanize these dogs when they bring them to the shelter. I think it's really wrong to do that since I'm sure most people would leave with the dogs and try to find them a better home.
Eitherway, there are a lot of big dog breeds at the shelter and there are not that many dog bite reports. I don't know about small dogs but I know about the large breeds.
I saw a cat latch onto a volunteer's arms. The cat would not let go of her. She had a lot of bit wounds and scratches and had to go home because she was bleeding a lot.
I just think they are trying to get rid of the problem and not solve it and it's not going to work.

Edited to add: Eventhough I am terrified of all dogs I rather encounter a large dog in the street than a small one. I've had too many bad experiences with small dogs to like them. Once I get to know a dog I can tolerate them. I love my boyfriend's lab and his cousin's pit. They are both wonderful dogs...but since the pit is more calm I prefer him. The lab is just too hyper. When they are together it's always the lab that bothers him. It's quite funny to watch for a while but we usually have to separate them after some time since the lab gets on the pits nerves.
 
Haiku said:
The-Wolf said:
(goes to cuddle his loveing, soft, nice cats)
The-Wolf, there are as many loving, soft, nice dogs as there are cats ;).
but the difference is, a cat is predictable;
dogs, however well trained, are not.

I know my fear is irrational, but that dosn't make it any less real.

Sorry for hijacking
 
The-Wolf said:
but the difference is, a cat is predictable;
dogs, however well trained, are not.
I actually disagree quite strongly with that statement. In my experience, dogs are much more often predictable in their behavior than cats.

For example, I was once holding onto a cat that I was carrying into a friend's house. He was very docile and sweet, but when he looked up and saw another cat, he suddenly sank his teeth into my arm with NO warning! Ouch did it hurt! Of course I didn't blame the kitty.. it was a natural wild reaction. He wanted to be let go in order to defend himself if need be.

I was walking my girl Tasha once when a neighbor dog came barrelling towards her, snarling. Tasha didn't turn to bite me because I held her leash, she lept forward to defend herself and me. (No fight ensued, the dog stayed in its yard).

But I suppose it's partly what you've been around all your life. I've been around dogs all my life and I find their behavior overall to be quite easily predictable as I know their body language and expressions.

I do not intend to belittle you or denounce your fears, all of us have fears and I respect that. I just feel that your fear makes them seem more dangerous and unpredictable than they are in reality.

Sorry too for the semi-off topic discussion. :)
 
Iron Man said:
but any animal that attacks a human for no reason (not self defense or defense of its family) should be put down.
I don't agree. Any animal? So that includes humans. We are animals too, remember? Unless we suddenly joined the plant kingdom or something... anyway. So what about when a person attacks another person? Should they be exucuted? What about when someone actually kills another person? Over in the UK we don't have the death penalty, and I don't know how many US murderers get executed. So what makes it any different? A human, who has motives, such as revenge or hate, is surely worse/more evil than a dog who bites because it felt threatened, or was suprised by something.
 
OohFeeshy said:
I don't agree. Any animal? So that includes humans. We are animals too, remember? Unless we suddenly joined the plant kingdom or something... anyway. So what about when a person attacks another person? Should they be exucuted? What about when someone actually kills another person? Over in the UK we don't have the death penalty, and I don't know how many US murderers get executed. So what makes it any different? A human, who has motives, such as revenge or hate, is surely worse/more evil than a dog who bites because it felt threatened, or was suprised by something.
Exactly.
We think it's so wrong when a dog bites someone without killing them and when we do bodily harm to another person we get probation, pay a fine, or go to jail for less than a year. :rolleyes: It's just stupid how some people want to be the only ones doing harm to humans.
 

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