Pigmy Corydoras

[Ichthys]

If it were so harmless, I guess drinking it wouldnt make you sick?

You think things need to be harmless to all animals to be harmless to fish?

 

[Fishfunn]

You think things need to be harmless to all animals to be harmless to fish?

Do you think fish cant taste that garbage? Does it really matter? Its all down to personal preference.

 

[GaryE]

Mulm is food for a huge class of fish - detritivores. A lot of the fish you keep live from it in nature - especially small fish.

Disease prevention is an issue because mulm can harbour and nurture velvet parasites, if they are present. beyond that, I see no issues with it, except it ain't pretty. I always try to have a bit of it in the tank when I breed African riverine dwarf Cichlids, as it's part of the diet of most of them - the aquarium krib, for example.

Using it to seed a filter is questionable. I doubt it works. Patience does, as you can seed a filter in an established tank and avoid a lot of hassles. Whatever we think about bottled concoctions, well researched and documented remedies,fishless cycles, etc, I think all experienced aquarists can agree that patience is extremely important. Doing things methodically with planning takes longer, but it gets results.

It'll get there, @Country joe . Anyway, isn't the country guy stereotype a relaxed and slow moving character who gets things done? The Country Joe and the Fish recordings I've heard weren't that fast.

 

[Fishfunn]

Using it to seed a filter is questionable. I doubt it works. Patience does, as you can seed a filter in an established tank and avoid a lot of hassles. Whatever we think about bottled concoctions, well researched and documented remedies,fishless cycles, etc, I think all experienced aquarists can agree that patience is extremely important. Doing things methodically with planning takes longer, but it gets results.

Over 30 years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank with an undergravel filter. I got the idea from others that you can clean an undergravel filter using a vacuum to pull the mulm from underneath the plates thru a vent tube without breaking down the tank. Well, in my haste, I accidentally moved the undergravel filter, which caused all the mulm under the plates to go into the water column. The net result was that it killed my fish and it was really quick within 1 or 2 minutes. I guess it killed them by being so concentrated with 'mulm' that the fish could not breathe. So now you can understand my hesitancy with mulm in the water column. I wont do it, I lost all the fish.

 

[GaryE]

What probably happened with the undergravel can happen with a poorly maintained filter, too. The organisms breaking down the mulm probably used the oxygen in the water to a point where the fish couldn't survive. It's similar to if your kids feed the fish all the food.

 

[Fishfunn]

What probably happened with the undergravel can happen with a poorly maintained filter, too. The organisms breaking down the mulm probably used the oxygen in the water to a point where the fish couldn't survive. It's similar to if your kids feed the fish all the food.

No, my filter worked great. I had a thin layer of filter floss on top of plates, with the gravel medium a couple of inches thick on top of that. I had it set up for a year when I thought it was time to clean it. Like I said, it killed my fish quick within a minute. I didnt have time to do anything with the equipment I had at the time. Too much mulm could starve them of oxygen, I would think. At the time, I was thinking of ammonia poisoning, or maybe nitrate poisoning? Too much of anything can kill anyone.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Sounds like their might have been a build up of anaerobic bacteria pockets underneath the undergravel filter - and that's what caused it since it would have released toxic gases once shifted. I'm sorry that happened to you, and I believe from what others have said here, especially @Seisage adding knowledge from a marine science research background and showing how anaerobic bacteria can build up in sand as well, that it's a more likely explanation than typical mulm being toxic.

Did the gravel in the tank have different grain sizes, especially? I know the flow of water through the undergravel filter should have helped to reduce anaerobic bacteria pockets forming, but I remember the mixed river gravel substrate my dad tended to use varied in size from reasonably large smooth pebbles, down to pretty much sand right at the bottom.

 

[Fishfunn]

Sounds like their might have been a build up of anaerobic bacteria pockets underneath the undergravel filter - and that's what caused it since it would have released toxic gases once shifted. I'm

That would make sense since it happened so fast.

Did the gravel in the tank have different grain sizes, especially? I know the flow of water through the undergravel filter should have helped to reduce anaerobic bacteria pockets forming, but I remember the mixed river gravel substrate my dad tended to use varied in size from reasonably large smooth pebbles, down to pretty much sand right at the bottom.

I had a thin layer of filter floss over the plates to prevent material from clogging the plate openings. I believe I had a couple of inches of small to medium-sized gravel recommended for undergravel filters, so I didn't mix an extra-fine layer with course gravel.

I remember having a shop vacuum pump hooked to one vent tube to suck out the waste under the plates. While the waste was being sucked out, the air vent tube I was connected to became dislodged from the plate, which caused the waste to go right into the water column. It clouded the water real quick, and my fish immediately started panicking. It was bad. I lost my treasured wild discus, which I rescued from a big box chain that nearly killed it with fin rot. That fish came to me at the side of the tank, and I could see in its eyes, "Daddy, help me.". It broke my heart.

Lesson learned: If you play around with a loaded gun, sometimes it can go off and kill you. So you have to be careful when playing with fire.

 

[Seisage]

Sounds like their might have been a build up of anaerobic bacteria pockets underneath the undergravel filter - and that's what caused it since it would have released toxic gases once shifted. I'm sorry that happened to you, and I believe from what others have said here, especially @Seisage adding knowledge from a marine science research background and showing how anaerobic bacteria can build up in sand as well, that it's a more likely explanation than typical mulm being toxic.

Did the gravel in the tank have different grain sizes, especially? I know the flow of water through the undergravel filter should have helped to reduce anaerobic bacteria pockets forming, but I remember the mixed river gravel substrate my dad tended to use varied in size from reasonably large smooth pebbles, down to pretty much sand right at the bottom.

I would be surprised if there were anaerobic pockets around an undergravel filter. In fact, a filter within the substrate is probably the best way to avoid anaerobic bacterial growth since it constantly brings in new, oxygenated water, as you pointed out. It's possible there were small pockets, but the larger grain size of gravel also inherently discourages anaerobic activity because water flows through it more easily.

@Fishfunn When you moved the filter, did you notice a rotten egg smell come from the water? The telltale characteristics of anaerobic activity are 1: black coloration in the substrate, and 2: the production of hydrogen sulfide gas, which smells a bit like rotten egg. If you didn't notice either of those things, then I would lean towards your initial hypothesis involving a release of built-up waste products that had rotted without being processed by the biofilter.

 

[Ichthys]

Anaerobic pockets can easily develop in a less than clean ug filter, if it's full of mulm for example, or in areas that aren't cleaned, like under plants or decor. Its all more likely of course with deeper gravel.

 

[sharkweek178]

Using it to seed a filter is questionable. I doubt it works. Patience does, as you can seed a filter in an established tank and avoid a lot of hassles. Whatever we think about bottled concoctions, well researched and documented remedies,fishless cycles, etc, I think all experienced aquarists can agree that patience is extremely important. Doing things methodically with planning takes longer, but it gets results.

In the time I have been fish keeping, I have regretted rash decisions. I have never regretted having patience and giving something the time it needs.

 

[Fishfunn]

@Fishfunn When you moved the filter, did you notice a rotten egg smell come from the water? The telltale characteristics of anaerobic activity are 1: black coloration in the substrate, and 2: the production of hydrogen sulfide gas, which smells a bit like rotten egg. If you didn't notice either of those things, then I would lean towards your initial hypothesis involving a release of built-up waste products that had rotted without being processed by the biofilter.

I really don't remember if it had a smell or not. It just looked like all the muck that collects under the plates of an UG filter over time. The UG filter did a great job and was running for a year before I got the bright idea to clean under the plates with a wet-dry vacuum. What a mistake that turned out to be. I think the shop vacuum was too powerful for one thing, and with the water tube coming off the plate, all the muck came out into the water. It clouded up the whole tank dark.