Ph Problems

[cookie_db]

I was testing my tank water before adding ammonia. The pH came out at 7.6 which being the highest I thought meant i have to test the high range as well cause it could be over that. Am I correct in this? Anyway so I tested it with the high range test and got a pH of 8. Now the only reason I think there is a problem is because my tap water has a pH of 7.2. Surely there is no way my tank can therefore read at 8. I haven't added any ammonia yet. Filled the tank up with water and sand on Sunday (and dechlorinator). Filter is in with just plain foam pads and heater is set at 30C ready for cycling.
Anyone got any ideas or am I worrying about nothing? Hope you have all the information needed to help me

Thanx
Dani

 

[scorphonic]

I doubt very much if dechlorinator will change the pH. You will notice that once you add the ammonia the pH will change again.

You should also bear in mind that pH changes with temperature so by you heating the water to 30 degrees C then maybe this is causing the pH change.

Take some water from the tank out and allow it to sit at room temperature for an hour, do the same for the tap water and test both one after the other when you feel that both are at the same temperature.

Hope that helps.

I wouldn't be too worried though. pH is not vital so long as you dont get sudden fluctuations in the tank. Get yourself a test kit for KH and GH, these are used to test water hardness. Soft water will fluctuate in its pH very easily while hard water wont. You can add things to your filter to rectify the problem in these cases. If you read through the forums on water chemistry then you will find all you need to know about it!!

 

[cookie_db]

Well they say you learn something new everyday and I have just learnt my lesson for the day. I didn't realise that pH changed with temperature so I will do what you suggest, see what happens and post back. Probably won't do it till tomorrow now as its time to wind down for the evening.

Thanx alot
Dani

 

[scorphonic]

If you want to do a quick test, just put the two water samples in the fridge and test from there. pH test are instant so a temperature change wont occur quick enough to disturb the result if you do it this way.

Hope this solves the problem. As an example, my tap water is 7.4 but the tank water is 7.9. This is partially due to the fish in there but could also be the temperature of 27 degrees as opposed to 10 - 15 degrees from the tap.

 

[cookie_db]

Ok. But this raises another question. If pH changes depending on temperature, what temperature is best to test at? Or am i just being really petty now

Dani

 

[scorphonic]

haha...just bare it in mind that you cant usually test your tap water and expect the tank water to be the same. It will vary and temperature is probably the reason why it does.

You just have to test you pH when you have finished your cycle (its not important to know it when cycling unless it crashes below 6 or goes too high as this can stall the cycle) but if all goes well your pH should raise to about 8 for the duration of the cycling process and once you are finished cycling the tank, do a 50% water change (some people will tell you 90% but it really depends on how much you need to take out and replace to get the nitrate levels below about 20)

Once you replace the 50% water you may notice that the pH has reduced nearer to its original tank level. You should invest in the water hardness test kit by API (and if you dont have a master test kit yet I'd recommend the API one coz its brilliant!). Water hardness is more important than pH as this determines the buffer capability of your water (buffer meaning how well it can keep the pH stable).

Never try to alter your pH with products in the store, this will cause problems as sudden pH changes can occur. Just try to stock your tank with fish that suit your pH value. Most community fish can tolerate a pH between 6.5 to 8 I believe so your fine!!

 

[cookie_db]

Yeah I know my pH isn't important while I cycle really just wanted to know what it was before I started. Yeah I've got the API mater kit, did my research before I bought one. I can probably have a good guess at what my water hardness is, hard. I might get a kit and test still.

Thanx for all your quick answers
Dani

 

[rdd1952]

You should also bear in mind that pH changes with temperature so by you heating the water to 30 degrees C then maybe this is causing the pH change.

I didn't realise that pH changed with temperature

pH doesn't actually change with the temperature of the water but there are other things associated with the rise or fall of water temperature that will affect pH. The higher the CO2 content of the water, the lower the pH. So if you heat water and drove out the oxygen, the pH will drop. Conversely, if you raise the amount of oxygen content in the water, the pH will rise. The reason you have to add aeration during a fishless cycle when the temperature is 85+ is to keep the oxygen levels up to support the bacteria growth. Otherwise, the high temps would force all the oxygen from the water preventing the bacteria from growing. That is why you see you fish gasping at the surface for air if the tank gets too hot. There isn't enough oxygen in the water for them.

Usually, if you are seeing a significant increase in the pH of the water after it is in the tank, there is something in there like a rock or the gravel that are raising it.

 

[adgo]

I was testing my tank water before adding ammonia. The pH came out at 7.6 which being the highest I thought meant i have to test the high range as well cause it could be over that. Am I correct in this? Anyway so I tested it with the high range test and got a pH of 8. Now the only reason I think there is a problem is because my tap water has a pH of 7.2. Surely there is no way my tank can therefore read at 8. I haven't added any ammonia yet. Filled the tank up with water and sand on Sunday (and dechlorinator). Filter is in with just plain foam pads and heater is set at 30C ready for cycling.
Anyone got any ideas or am I worrying about nothing? Hope you have all the information needed to help me

Thanx
Dani

sand raises ph...what decor do u have in the tank? most types of driftwood will lower ph a little

 

[cookie_db]

Well the only thing in the tank at the moment is the sand. I was planning on getting a few bits here and there whilst my tank is cycling to put in there.
rdd1952 you say if you heat the water and drive out the oxygen the pH drops but mine has risen. Would the sand really haven risen the pH by 0.8?It seems alot to me. To be honest I'm starting to get really confused about all this.

Please help me
Dani

 

[Miss Wiggle]

good topic about pH here

 

[rdd1952]

Sand doesn't make pH rise unless it is something like aragonite sand. I use black Tahitian Moon Sand in my tanks and it has no effect on pH. I have also used the play sand without effecton pH. The pH in all of my tanks with sand has actually dropped but that is not due to the sand but because I have no buffering capacity and use driftwood which lowers pH.

Most substrates don't affect pH unless they are designed for that such as the aragonite sand and crushed coral that are common in cichlid setups. What kind of sand do you have in the tank?

 

[cookie_db]

The sand is bought from a fish shop. It's 'Unipac'. Well at least that's what it says on the bag. I tried what scorphonic suggested and let both my tank water and tap water out so become room temperature. Tank water still reads 8 but the tap water now reads 7.4 rather than 7.2. I'm not going to worry much about this till my tank's cycled and got all the decor in I want as I believe wood can alter pH as well and I am planning on getting a piece for my tank.
So is it normal for tank and tap water to have such a difference in pH? You'll soon find out that I ask far too many questions I'm just curious.
On another note I added my ammonia but think I may have added too much. Test went off the scale with minutes and my water clouded up a bit again. Going to leave it for now and if i don't see a drop within the next 4 days or so I guess I'll have to change some water out. It's all a big learning curve and I'm not going to be put off by it.

Thanx
Dani

 

[rdd1952]

Tank water and tap water will quite often vary but it is usually in the other direction. I think in most cases, the tank pH will drop below the tap pH because of the things we put in out tanks that lower it such as driftwood. Most municipal water supplies have a low KH to improve taste so it has very little buffering capacity meaning that when we add things like driftwood, it will almost always lower the pH some.