Ph Of 6.0. Is This Ok Long Term For Goldfish?

[greengoddess]

Hello again everyone. I currently have two fantail goldifsh squashed into a 25 litre tank. The tank has been stable for quite a while now and the water quality is good with very low nitrite and zero ammonia. I am shortly going to move the fish to a 240 litre tank once I have completed a fishless cycle. The pH level in the small 25 litre tank has consistently stayed at 6.0. From what I have read, a level of 6.0 is right on the minimum recommended for goldfish whilst a pH of 7.2 - 7.6 is considered ideal. I am assuming that the pH in my new 240 litre tank will also be 6.0. If so, is this pH level acceptable long term for healthy goldfish?

My tap water here in Cumbria, UK is very soft and clean.

 

[Gourami123]

6.0 is not ideal so i would at least put the ph up to 7.0 becuase the best ph would be 7 to 7.8

 

[greengoddess]

6.0 is not ideal so i would at least put the ph up to 7.0 becuase the best ph would be 7 to 7.8

The thing is, how do I keep the pH at a consistent level if my tap water has a pH of 6.0?

 

[K-Holed]

With some diffculty.

You could try adding a bag of coral chips to your filter and see if that helps.
Also a calcerous substrate would raise your pH, but probably probably too much and is more difficult to regulate.
I'd try and steer away from using pH up and down.
You could try adding some calcerous rocks to the aquarium, which would be easier to fish out if it went too much the other way.

 

[greengoddess]

OK, thank you. In my case do you think it is more important to keep the pH stable at 6.0 or should I mess around trying to keep it above 7.0?
I am also going to try a different pH test kit in case this one is giving low readings.

 

[waterdrop]

If you are in doubt about your pH test kit (what kind is it?) then it would indeed be good to pick up one or more other liquid-type ones if you can find them. (you think all of us old hobbyists with shelves crowded with little bottles got there for nothing? )

Do a search for member "drobbyb" and find the link in his signature area pointing to an article he and I wrote summarizing a lot of the hardness/pH stuff the members yak about here. It goes into more detail of the same advice KH just gave. One part I'm not familiar with though is the tolerance and/or preference of goldfish, so anything we can find out about that will be useful eventually. Prior to that though, the pH you've got will have a major impact on your cycling.

In general, what you're going to read in the article is that the best practice way to raise pH during a fishless cycle is via baking soda (simple sodium bicarb from the kitchen cabinet but make sure its not baking powder!) and the best practice method of raising pH in a tank that has fish in it is to adjust various amounts of crushed coral (CC) in a mesh bag in the filter. But its good to read and discuss this stuff as there are plenty more details.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

If you are in doubt about your pH test kit (what kind is it?) then it would indeed be good to pick up one or more other liquid-type ones if you can find them. (you think all of us old hobbyists with shelves crowded with little bottles got there for nothing?

)

Do a search for member "drobbyb" and find the link in his signature area pointing to an article he and I wrote summarizing a lot of the hardness/pH stuff the members yak about here. It goes into more detail of the same advice KH just gave. One part I'm not familiar with though is the tolerance and/or preference of goldfish, so anything we can find out about that will be useful eventually. Prior to that though, the pH you've got will have a major impact on your cycling.

In general, what you're going to read in the article is that the best practice way to raise pH during a fishless cycle is via baking soda (simple sodium bicarb from the kitchen cabinet but make sure its not baking powder!) and the best practice method of raising pH in a tank that has fish in it is to adjust various amounts of crushed coral (CC) in a mesh bag in the filter. But its good to read and discuss this stuff as there are plenty more details.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks again Waterdrop for all your help. You have helped me a lot on this forum

The ideal pH for goldfish is definitely over 7.0 but they are apparently quite tolerant of pH variability. I am at work at the moment and I have tested the tap water here using the pH equipment in my work laboratory. It is also around 6.0. I will take a test kit home to confirm that my own kit is reading correctly but I suspect that it is.

I will have a read of the posts you highlighted and I'll probably end up having to get some crushed coral for the filter in my new tank by the sound of it.

 

[waterdrop]

As a general rule we teach beginners that stability of pH is more important to fish than the actual number their tank sits at. That's a very basic and important concept. But I just wanted to move on to the detail about goldfish prefs so you could get the info down in your notebook or whatever.

The real concern with fish is actually the underlying mineral content, not the pH. The pH is just a secondary and not-as-good indicator of things. If you have a tap pH of 6.0 (very similar but even lower than mine!) then its a good bet (but not certain) that you have very low KH (carbonate (aka temporary) hardness) and that perhaps even your GH (general hardness) is quite low. Both the best practice treatments are actually in the business of raising KH.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Harlequins]

Did you buy the goldfish local?,i was thinking that if the have been doing ok up until now and you have bought them local in a ph of 6,then they are probably tolerating the ph of 6?
although i may be wrong,i'm no expert on ph levels

 

[greengoddess]

Thanks again Waterdrop, yes, our local water is renowned for being very soft so I imagine my KH level will be low. I will also read more about water hardness.

Harlequins, yes I bought the fish locally and they seem to be doing extremely well at the moment but I've only had them for 6 or 7 weeks. I was initially wondering if it would be advisable to just leave the pH at 6.0 permanently but I now think it would be better to try and keep it controlled at 7.0 or above. If I do raise the pH, it is keeping it consistent that worries me.

 

[waterdrop]

Keeping it raised month after month, year after year is a very tricky proposition and nearly everyone fails at some point, but I tend to be overly pessimistic sometimes...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

Keeping it raised month after month, year after year is a very tricky proposition and nearly everyone fails at some point, but I tend to be overly pessimistic sometimes...

~~waterdrop~~

Yes, I agree with you after reading into it. I need to decide if it's worth adjusting the pH because it's a long term commitment and I suspect the fish would prefer a stable low pH to a variable higher pH. Also, as this is a new hobby to me, I fear that I may become somewhat complacement in the future and may not attend to the pH as often as I should. Like you, I also take the pessimistic view.

Further to yesterday's discussion, I took home some pH testing gear from work and tested my tank water again. I got a result of 6.5. My own Nutrafin testing kit gave a pH of just over 6.0 (possibly 6.2?).

I will do some more research into the long term affects of pH on fancy goldfish and decide if it's worth trying to adjust it. I also have to bear in mind that I intend to add a shoal of white cloud mountain minnows in the future.

 

[waterdrop]

As I've put in my little ID phrase there, I'm a "Re-Beginner" to the hobby. Despite having had lots of tanks, doing some breeding and lots of observation and reading as a kid in the hobby, I really found the the bulk of the fundamentals about fishkeeping were not things I had been privy to back then. The things I've been exposed to in my recent "re-beginner" life in the hobby are much better. The issues surrounding fish, plants, low KH/GH/pH and alterations to that mineral content are a topic I'm keenly interested in but one I don't feel quite settled about yet.

My own tap water is very soft and fairly low pH: Maybe a high of GH=4 degrees, KH 2 or less, pH between high 6's and 7.0 or low 7's. I seem to have just barely enough mineral content that I can reasonbly replenish it with a 50% weekly water change but I still worry that that is borderline and perhaps my plants would really do better with a bit more mineral content in there. So I find myself constantly tempted to put just a tiny amount of crushed coral in a mesh bag and put it in my filter. It doesn't help matters that I've had it all ready and sitting there (bag of crushed coral in shed, new mesh bag on shelf, lol) just tempting me. I just would hate to go off doing that, trying to help my plants a bit and find that my acid loving neons etc. would not be as healthy. Its just a hard choice for me even to do a little experiment. Oh well.

When I see some fishkeepers say to just toss in some crushed coral with hardly a thought I sometimes wonder if I'm just making too much of it. Maybe its not nearly as big a deal as I think of it sometimes...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

So to put it simply, it's not a decision to take lightly if you care for your fish.

Today I have ordered a GH/KH testing kit so I can get a complete picture of what my water is like (both out of my taps and in my current small 25 litre tank). If the KH is really low then I may well go ahead with the crushed coral. Ironically, a few years ago (before I even thought of keeping fish) I went for a walk to the beautiful "Coral Beach" on the Isle of Skye and brought back a few handfuls of the lovely crushed coral that the beach is made from. It's been in a glass vase ever since as a decorative feature in my home. Perhaps it will go missing over the next few weeks

People have always said how wonderful the Cumbrian tap water is. I thought it would be great for fish. Little did I know that really soft water gives huge headaches

 

[drobbyb]

Do a search for member "drobbyb" and find the link in his signature area pointing to an article he and I wrote summarizing a lot of the hardness/pH stuff the members yak about here.

I'm still here Just life has been busy. The link is in my signature.