2 year old tank is not cycled!!!

[Lcc86]

I looked into the seachem prime site as TwoTankAmin said and it says it can give false amonia readings. I would then think that maybe they have been cycled but why would it show nitrite and nitrate?

Nitrite and nitrate can build up in a dirty tank too as the fish produce waste, or from a dirty filter, overfeeding etc.

 

[Laura89]

I can't find the exact parameters for this area other than soft water?

 

[Naughts]

I can't find the exact parameters for this area other than soft water?

Aw, sorry, it must be one of the few areas that doesn't give numbers.

 

[Essjay]

Scottish Water does give the hardness, but it's not easy to find.
First load this page

Water Quality Search - Scottish Water

Water Quality Search

www.scottishwater.co.uk

There's a box to enter your postcode and a link to "water hardness data"
Open "water hardness data" in a new tab and open the pdf for "water hardness data 2022".
Go back to the first page and enter your postcode. In the "results summary table" it will give "site name". Make a note of that name, then go to the pdf of water hardness data 2022. Scroll down the first column till you find your 'site name' (the pdf calls it 'supply zone')
You need the numbers in the third column (hardness as mg/l CaCO3, which we call ppm) and the last column with numbers (German degrees, which we call dH).
Then post the two numbers on here.

I did say they don't make it easy


You need the two numbers as some fish profiles give the hardness range in ppm and others give it in dH.

 

[anewbie]

One minor comment. Actual ph with regards to fish health is pretty much irrelevant in most cases as what matters is the kh/gh. As @TwoTankAmin noted kh will impact ph and that is generally the more important number. While most reliable sites give a range (such as seriouslyfish) frequently being on the edge of the range is less healthy to the fish.

I'm not a fan of barbs but many species of fishes expect seasons and not having seasons can impact their long term health (usually temp change but sometime include change in current and water parameters (i.e, raining season, summer/winter depending on fish locality). I was reading a long debate on water condition for clown loaches example where they generally spend 70% at near blackwater condition but the other 30% can be spent in much harder water - i'm not sure they require harder water for good health but some folks interpret that they can be kept in hard water full time and that i believe is not healthy.

The first things I would do is to pour the stress coat down the toilet.

The next thing is for you to know more about Prime. To that end please go here https://www.seachem.com/prime.php and then click on the link for FAQ and then read the following two sections:

Q. I am using Prime® to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?
and
Q. I tested my tap water after using Prime® and came up with an ammonia reading. Is this because of chloramine? Could you explain how this works in removing chloramine?

Cycling is a process and it works a specific way. One way is that more ammonia means more nitrite. So the fact that you have ammonia means you should also have nitrite, but you do not. That would suggest that maybe you do not really have ammonia.

Yes, is is true that ammonium (NH4) is much less harmful than ammonia (NH3), but that does not mean that the NH4 is not doing any harm, assuming that you reading is real. Prolonged exposure to NH4 is harmful to fish.

Next, you do not report any numbers for either GH or KH and these are important to know. KH is what keeps pH stable and the higher the KH, the higher the pH will usually be. I do not keep goldies but my understanding is they need a pH much higher than yours is. Over 7 for sure though they can handle it down to about 6.5. One the other hand they can do well on soft or hard water. While your 6.0 pH is making ammonia less harmful, it is also stressing the fish as they much prefer alkaline water not acid.

Next, you do not report your water temperature either. Goldies tend to do best in cooler water, they are not tropical fish. Lastly, what are you feeding? When it comes to keeping fish healthy water quality/parameters and diet as well as tank size and layout all matter.

It doesn't matter if you have NH3 or NH4, either will get the cycle started.

Finally, no matter what the store folks tell you, there are only two bacterial products that contain the right bacteria- Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start (or Safe Start +).

 

[Naughts]

The red gills that you describe on the danios before they died could indicate ammonia or nitrite poisoning which obviously fits your assessment of the cycle crashing.
Whilst the pH/KH/GH might be relevant to the tank crashes, we can also explore other avenues whilst waiting for the results.

Have you used any medication, particularly those containing antibiotics, in the tanks?
Is the filter ever switched off for any length of time? Has this or any other equipment malfunctioned?
Do you ever do extensive tank cleaning, especially using chemicals?
Do you wash your hands and arms before working on the tanks?
You have included lots of valuable information in your first post but is there any thing else that you think might be relevant?

 

[Laura89]

I eventually found that report, thanks for the instructions. The two numbers are 35.75 and dh was 2.

I only switch the filter off when I'm cleaning the tank and have never used any kind of cleaning product in them. I hoover the gravel in the barb/danio tank. I wipe the glass at the front to get rid water mark area and wash my hands/arms before doing anything. Filters have never malfunctioned. There is a heater in the barb tank.

I attempted to treat the danios with salt but nothing else. I was worried a proper medication might harm the others. Lost about 5 quite quickly, red gils/abdomen, slightly misshapen, dodgy swimming, fastbreathing. The last 2 seem to be ok for now. I want to add more in so they aren't stressed without a group of them but not until I have a healthy tank.

The goldfish tank gas been treated with pimafix and melafix and she's on the mend.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Nitrite can cause damage to gills, but this is only an issue if the fish have not suffocated. It does not turn them red either. I can turn them tan or brown. It can deform and cause other damage. (Bold below added by me.)

Brown blood disease occurs in fish when water contains high nitrite concentrations. Nitrite enters the bloodstream through the gills and turns the blood to a chocolate-brown color. Hemoglobin, which transports oxygen in the blood, combines with nitrite to form methemoglobin, which is incapable of oxygen transport. Brown blood cannot carry sufficient amounts of oxygen, and affected fish can suffocate despite adequate oxygen concentration in the water. This accounts for the gasping behavior often observed in fish with brown blood disease, even when oxygen levels are relatively high.

from https://srac.tamu.edu/fact-sheets/serve/110

It is important to distinguish between the levels and duration of nitrite we may see in cycling v.s if we were growing 1,000s if fish in ponds. But for us, nitrite is usually only an issue if we are cycling using fish. Most of the recent research into nitrite relates to the field of aquaculture. Here things are pretty much the equivalent of an overstocked tank. Fish farming presents a much different potential for nitrogen problems than we normally see in our tanks. You cannot do a water change on a few 100,000 gallon pond. You cannot just add some plants either. What they do is to add chloride. Sodium chloride works as does potassium chloride., But the later costs a lot more, so most use salt.

The most important factoid about nitrite is how effective chloride is in blocking it. It is so important that science has determined that any research into nitrite and fish which lacks data on chloride levels is basically worthless and should not be considered valid.