Peppered cory ill!

[cowgirluntamed]

So...I'm not sure what happened...4 days ago they were all fine. 3 days ago I noticed one with clamped fins and it also looked like he had some small spots (not ich) like he had sand on him or something. Not as active. 2 days ago he started getting fungus. I started to treat the tank with api triple sulfa. Today, more fungus, losing tail more. I only noticed today that they were starting to pick at him so I found a mesh breeder net to put him in.

Tomorrow I change water, then two more days of treatment. Rugh now I don't think he's going to make it but I can hope. He had some small plant leaves and poop stuck in it and I actually managed to pull most of it off very carefully. So now it's kind of white on his skin and some small wounds. (Back and top fin, but other fins affected as well). I hope I didn't make things worse but I didn't want stuff stuck to him like that.

I'm thinking it's columnaris..but can it hit only one fish that fast? Everyone else seems fine.

I ordered another small heater...it hasn't shipped yet....but if he is still alive by the time it gets here, I was thinking of moving him into a small plastic tote I have for more specific treatment. Though I'm not sure what I would do except lots of clean water and Indian Almond leaves. Any suggestions? Am I doing the right thing?

Oh, he's also not eating.

Tank stats (I didnt forget!)
size 10 gallons(to be temporary but they've been in there probably a good 6 months now? Or almost that...supposed to be quarantine tank till my 55 is set up. Almost there)
Inhabitants 7 peppered cories (one of which is sick) and one horned nerite snail
Temp 76-77f
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-(unsure as my test strips dont tell that anymore, but I've been doing weekly water changes so probably around 10ish.)
Ph-8.2 and very stable
GH and kh around 12-13 drops per api liquid test kit, so on the harder side
Two anubias plants, plastic plants, malaysian driftwood and now some floating salvinia. Eating omega one brand shrimp pellets.

The only thing I have changed up is I added some salvinia and some wisteria from my other tank to see if they would grow in this one. I don't think that would cause this but I don't know.

What could have happened to the poor guy? I don't know what I'm missing. Can they spike each other and cause wounds or poisoning? Or could he have just scraped something and got a wound? This just seems totally off that this happened as fast as it did....

Any suggestions welcome. I can try to answer questions if any more info is needed.

 

[seangee]

I'm not suggesting that's the cause of the problem but they prefer a pH of below 7 and softer water. It is possible that his immunity and general condition is not where it should be becuase of this. pH is a logarithmic scale so 8 is 10 times as alkaline as 7

 

[Colin_T]

it sounds like excess mucous caused by a protozoan infection (costia, trichodina or chilodonella). But without a picture it is impossible to say.

Triple sulpha/ tri sulfa won't kill those parasites. You need something with Malachite Green and use it at half strength.

You should always wipe down the inside of the glass and do a big water change (75%) and complete gravel clean before treating, and if a fish ever gets sick or looks off colour, do the glass, water change and gravel clean too.

Big water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate will dilute the number of harmful pathogens in the water and buys you a few days to figure out what is going on.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Unfortunately it did pass. But thanks for the suggestions guys. RIP little guy.

I'm not suggesting that's the cause of the problem but they prefer a pH of below 7 and softer water. It is possible that his immunity and general condition is not where it should be becuase of this. pH is a logarithmic scale so 8 is 10 times as alkaline as 7

I can't help my water unfortunately due to it being well water. Can't afford to buy it or get one of those fancy filters. Wish I could! But I've done lots of research and I'm trying to stick with fish that have been bred in captivity for a long time so they seem to adapt better. But I do get where you are coming from. I'm not arguing.

it sounds like excess mucous caused by a protozoan infection (costia, trichodina or chilodonella). But without a picture it is impossible to say.

Triple sulpha/ tri sulfa won't kill those parasites. You need something with Malachite Green and use it at half strength.

You should always wipe down the inside of the glass and do a big water change (75%) and complete gravel clean before treating, and if a fish ever gets sick or looks off colour, do the glass, water change and gravel clean too.

Big water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate will dilute the number of harmful pathogens in the water and buys you a few days to figure out what is going on.

I will do a good water change tomorrow. I don't wipe the glass down to let my nerite snail continue to have food. He's doing a good job.

Thanks for the insight...I just wasn't sure if columnaris could take hold that fast. I'm going to go look those things up about what you suggested to see if I fits.

As for the meds...the ones I have for "parasites" are general cure, paraguard, and prazipro. Would one of these work? Though...now that the little guy passed...do I need to treat the others since they all look fine? I don't want the rest of them to go either....

 

[Colin_T]

Columnaris starts at the mouth and spreads very quickly. Within a few days of infection the fish are dead and the bottom jaw and face have usually been eaten away by the bacteria that causes the problem. Below are 2 links showing photos of a guppy and harlequin rasbora that have Columnaris.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/guppy-with-white-fungus.448014/#post-3787428

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/white-stuff-on-harliquins-mouth-help.446998/#post-3780156

--------------------
Fish naturally have a clear mucous layer over their body to help them move thru water easier. It the body goes cream, grey or white, it is excess mucous caused by something irritating the fish, either poor water quality or parasites. When there is a cream or grey patch on the back of the fish, it is usually protozoan, (the ones I listed above).

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Columnaris starts at the mouth and spreads very quickly. Within a few days of infection the fish are dead and the bottom jaw and face have usually been eaten away by the bacteria that causes the problem. Below are 2 links showing photos of a guppy and harlequin rasbora that have Columnaris.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/guppy-with-white-fungus.448014/#post-3787428

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/white-stuff-on-harliquins-mouth-help.446998/#post-3780156

--------------------
Fish naturally have a clear mucous layer over their body to help them move thru water easier. It the body goes cream, grey or white, it is excess mucous caused by something irritating the fish, either poor water quality or parasites. When there is a cream or grey patch on the back of the fish, it is usually protozoan, (the ones I listed above).

When I looked up columnaris along time ago, it said it could also start on the back, or some sort of saddleback. Unless I'm thinking of something else?

Anyway, I looked up info on the protozoan things and I'm just not for sure. It never had rapid breathing until really today, and even then it wasn't that bad.

I wish I would have taken a picture....but the stuff on its back basically looked like someone stuck a piece of cotton ball on top of it. It wasn't just a layer covering the skin or anything. This encased the entire upper fin. It's mouth looked fine to me.

 

[NickAu]

A word of caution in using Malachite Green, if you have soft low ph water using Malachite Green could kill all your fish

 

[cowgirluntamed]

A word of caution in using Malachite Green, if you have soft low ph water using Malachite Green could kill all your fish

I definitely don't have that problem! Almost wish I did so I could keep a wider range of fish.

 

[Colin_T]

Columnaris is uncommon in most tanks and usually appears in shops or quarantine facilities (importers) with new batches of fish, usually tetras and rasboras. But any fish can get it. Most people have never seen real Columnaris and a lot of the info on the interweb about it, is incorrect.

It is a flesh eating bacteria that is commonly found in water ways in Asia and gets into damaged tissue. Once infected the bacteria spread rapidly and infected fish normally die within 24-48 hours of the mouth looking white.

The infection starts on the lips/ mouth and spreads thru the jaw and face and death occurs in 100% of infected fish unless they are treated with anti-biotics immediately.

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If the fish had a white fluffy back then it was fungus that got into a wound.

-------------------
Fish have fewer infections in hard water so it does have its advantages

If you want to lower the hardness, you can collect rainwater or distil water and use half rain water and half normal water to reduce the hardness.

A solar still can be made with a large plastic storage container. Half fill it with water and put an empty bucket in the middle of the container. Put some gravel in the bottom of the bucket to stop it tipping over or floating around. Put a clear plastic or glass lid on the container and leave it in the sun. Put a small rock on the lid near the centre so the lid sags a bit in the middle.

As the water in the container evaporates the pure water collects on the lids and forms droplets. These run towards the centre of the lid due to the rock on top, and drip into the bucket. The water in the bucket is now pure and has no minerals in it. You can use some of that water to mix with normal water and reduce the hardness of the normal water supply.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Columnaris is uncommon in most tanks and usually appears in shops or quarantine facilities (importers) with new batches of fish, usually tetras and rasboras. But any fish can get it. Most people have never seen real Columnaris and a lot of the info on the interweb about it, is incorrect.

It is a flesh eating bacteria that is commonly found in water ways in Asia and gets into damaged tissue. Once infected the bacteria spread rapidly and infected fish normally die within 24-48 hours of the mouth looking white.

The infection starts on the lips/ mouth and spreads thru the jaw and face and death occurs in 100% of infected fish unless they are treated with anti-biotics immediately.

-------------------
If the fish had a white fluffy back then it was fungus that got into a wound.

-------------------
Fish have fewer infections in hard water so it does have its advantages

If you want to lower the hardness, you can collect rainwater or distil water and use half rain water and half normal water to reduce the hardness.

A solar still can be made with a large plastic storage container. Half fill it with water and put an empty bucket in the middle of the container. Put some gravel in the bottom of the bucket to stop it tipping over or floating around. Put a clear plastic or glass lid on the container and leave it in the sun. Put a small rock on the lid near the centre so the lid sags a bit in the middle.

As the water in the container evaporates the pure water collects on the lids and forms droplets. These run towards the centre of the lid due to the rock on top, and drip into the bucket. The water in the bucket is now pure and has no minerals in it. You can use some of that water to mix with normal water and reduce the hardness of the normal water supply.

It did seem to happen really fast, and the wound thing I was wondering about too. I know they have spikes on them but do they ever spike each other? And I suppose it could have damaged itself on the wood....but I'm not for sure. They are very skittish and don't like me close to the tank so I'm not sure since I can't get a good look at them. I need some small binoculars to look at them from far off I guess...lol. far off being less than 10 ft from my chair..lol.

I've wondered if I could do a still before but never thougth of doing it solar. That sounds very interesting! I may look into it in the future but right now I just want my tank stable.

Anyway, thanks for all the information. I may just finish out this triple sulfa treatment just in case and then monitor the rest of them. Hopefully it was just an odd ball thing that happened to it and the rest are ok. (I do know for sure I have one large mature female and thought I saw the start of breeding behavior a bit ago. So maybe some aggression? Don't know...)

 

[Colin_T]

Corydoras do sometimes spike each other with their fins but it usually happens when they are crowded into a bag or bucket. It is very uncommon in an aquarium where each fish has some space to move about.

Corydoras are not aggressive when breeding and do not normally damage each other when breeding.

-------------------
There are a couple of reasons fish become nervous and skittish.
1) Poor water quality. If there is anything wrong with the water it will stress them and make them more nervous. High nitrates and really low (acid) pH are the most common culprits.

2) They have minimal cover in the tank and are not use to people being near their tank. This happens a lot in home aquariums where people are at work all day and only spend a short time near the fish tank. The fish aren't use to people being near the tank so panic and hide.

If you have the tank in a quiet corner or bedroom where nobody goes, then move it into the lounge room or main living area so people are always walking past the tank. The fish get use to it very quickly and don't hide or panic when somebody approaches the aquarium.

If you can't do that then have a small television on during the day. You don't need the sound on. The flickering lights from the adverts and shows will cause the fish to become less stressed when other things move around them.

Another option is a small fan. You tie some 12 inch long streamers to the front cage on a 20 or 30 cm desk fan and have the fan on oscillate. As the fan blows air, the streamers flap about and create movement in the room.

The fan and tv can be set on timers to go on and off randomly throughout the day, or just left on all day.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Corydoras do sometimes spike each other with their fins but it usually happens when they are crowded into a bag or bucket. It is very uncommon in an aquarium where each fish has some space to move about.

Corydoras are not aggressive when breeding and do not normally damage each other when breeding.

-------------------
There are a couple of reasons fish become nervous and skittish.
1) Poor water quality. If there is anything wrong with the water it will stress them and make them more nervous. High nitrates and really low (acid) pH are the most common culprits.

2) They have minimal cover in the tank and are not use to people being near their tank. This happens a lot in home aquariums where people are at work all day and only spend a short time near the fish tank. The fish aren't use to people being near the tank so panic and hide.

If you have the tank in a quiet corner or bedroom where nobody goes, then move it into the lounge room or main living area so people are always walking past the tank. The fish get use to it very quickly and don't hide or panic when somebody approaches the aquarium.

If you can't do that then have a small television on during the day. You don't need the sound on. The flickering lights from the adverts and shows will cause the fish to become less stressed when other things move around them.

Another option is a small fan. You tie some 12 inch long streamers to the front cage on a 20 or 30 cm desk fan and have the fan on oscillate. As the fan blows air, the streamers flap about and create movement in the room.

The fan and tv can be set on timers to go on and off randomly throughout the day, or just left on all day.

They actually get a lot of random activity during the mornings till just after noon. They are in my living room and are placed in a high traffic area(me and my dogs). They don't seem to like fast movement or vibrations from walking(old trailer, can't do much about it...lol). Sometimes if I move fast in my chair they hide.

I think it's just being in the ten gallon they need more space. I don't have much plant cover on the ground either. They do hide amonst the wood and the sponge filter though. They are also the only fish in their so maybe a dither will help but no room in this tank.

The 55 will have harlequin rasboras and glowlight tetras. Maybe my blue 3spot gourami if he behaves himself, otherwise he won't be in there. I will also up the school of cories when I get the bigger tank as well. If all of these make it to the big tank I will probably get 6 more. But I need to finish it(resealing and painting background) and get it set up so I can buy my plants to put in it. The plants I will let settle for a bit before putting fish in. Maybe I will work on that tonight or in the morning...shouldn't be too hard! I just have to wipe the inside down a few times with water(no way to move it by myself to rinse it out good) because I used vinegar to help clean it. It's ready to be resealed after that and putting tape on it. It's going to be in a corner of the living room that is not as heavily trafficked and with additional hiding places and more cover and other dish I believe(and hope! Lol ) that they will be more comfortable.

 

[Colin_T]

Years ago it was recommended that discus only be kept in quiet rooms with black walls with a dim light, and nobody dare enter in case you scare the fish to death. I knew a fish cichlid keepers and fishkeepers in general that kept all their fish like that. We could never film or photograph their fish because they hid as soon as the door was opened.

People eventually realised that pampering the fish actually made them shy and stress out all the time. When they moved the fish into an area with lots of movement around them, they stopped panicking and hiding and the hobbyists could actually spend time watching their fish.

Tank size doesn't mean much in relation to fish that spook easily. We had an 80 litre hexagonal tank on the counter at the petshop. It contained a young pr of discus and some glolight tetras. Every customer that was served stood next to the tank and kids tapped on the glass. The fish didn't care about people and in fact, they use to swim up to the top whenever anyone came to the counter to be served. They wanted food.

They also bred in that tank. We had discus looking after eggs and babies in a tank on the counter, and the glolights use to spawn all the time. The customers loved it and the fish didn't care one way or another about people being near them

I had the same thing with birds. People keep finches or parrots in a secluded backyard and don't go near them in case they panic and stop looking after their eggs or young. I use to spend hours sitting in my aviary with the birds and never had any issues with them panicking. I even had a few species that would follow me around the aviary picking up bugs when I was turning the soil over.

If animals (including fish) see people regularly, and are not harassed by people, they tame down pretty quickly.

---------------------
dither fish can help but check the water chemistry and see how they do

 

[NickAu]

People eventually realised that pampering the fish actually made them shy and stress out all the time. When they moved the fish into an area with lots of movement around them, they stopped panicking and hiding

I agree.

These are some stress free fish
Video not my work.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Years ago it was recommended that discus only be kept in quiet rooms with black walls with a dim light, and nobody dare enter in case you scare the fish to death. I knew a fish cichlid keepers and fishkeepers in general that kept all their fish like that. We could never film or photograph their fish because they hid as soon as the door was opened.

People eventually realised that pampering the fish actually made them shy and stress out all the time. When they moved the fish into an area with lots of movement around them, they stopped panicking and hiding and the hobbyists could actually spend time watching their fish.

Tank size doesn't mean much in relation to fish that spook easily. We had an 80 litre hexagonal tank on the counter at the petshop. It contained a young pr of discus and some glolight tetras. Every customer that was served stood next to the tank and kids tapped on the glass. The fish didn't care about people and in fact, they use to swim up to the top whenever anyone came to the counter to be served. They wanted food.

They also bred in that tank. We had discus looking after eggs and babies in a tank on the counter, and the glolights use to spawn all the time. The customers loved it and the fish didn't care one way or another about people being near them

I had the same thing with birds. People keep finches or parrots in a secluded backyard and don't go near them in case they panic and stop looking after their eggs or young. I use to spend hours sitting in my aviary with the birds and never had any issues with them panicking. I even had a few species that would follow me around the aviary picking up bugs when I was turning the soil over.

If animals (including fish) see people regularly, and are not harassed by people, they tame down pretty quickly.

---------------------
dither fish can help but check the water chemistry and see how they do

But...I'm not coddling them right now...they are in a high traffic area and have been since I got them. I feed them in the mornings after lights come on. And they never come out until things are calm (either me sitting down in my recliner or not in the room). I'm not babying them at all. They just hide a lot when the dogs go by or when I move around. Should I start sitting even closer to them then? Lol. I don't know what else to do about it.

After lights come on I will try to get a picture of the tank and I will try to get my liquid test kit out and give numbers from that. Though I don't know if the triple sulfa will throw it off. But I can try. Lol. I just bought the test trips for something a bit quicker if I saw something off.