Ovipository

[newfishy]

I have had two full grown males that bred with my females and produced fry that still had their ovipositer.

 

[Syphoniera]

The gist of the above - given very roughly - is that certain man-made chemicals affect the body by mimicking cellular signals.
These are now present not only in our bodies, but in those of animals, including wildife in isolated areas, such as in the Arctic, where pollution collects due to weather and current patterns..
The results of these chemicals are manifold and often expressed as disease (including cancers, reproductive disorders and various immune system damage,) but also can profoundly affect the development of the foetus or the young in myriad ways.

The process mainly under discussion here is the creation of hermaphrodite fish and the alteration of genetically male fish into fully functional females.
This is not normal - in what we commonly term higher organisms, apart from such examples as certain snails and various insects, animals are typically either male or female.
If any animal intended to be either male or female has both sets of genitalia, there is something very, very wrong.
And a recent and growing prevalence is now known to be due to the action of endocrine disrupting chemicals.

In groundbreaking independent studies, it has been shown that these chemicals can attach to genetic material - without, however physically altering DNA - and randomly alter the unimaginably complex orchestrated cellular communication and biological interplay continually ongoing at uncountable billions of actions approximately in the time it take you to blink.
These endocrine disrupting chemical genetic attachments and their disastrous and far-reaching effects are as heritable as eye colour, and produce, according to the results of research and the effects seen in both human and animal populations, even worse effects in all forseeable generations of offspring than occurred in the original parents exposed.

When you breed fish having both sets of genitals, you pass along the attached and heritable chemical attachment which has the capacity to distort the body and the functions of the body in that fish and all offspring so afflicted.
The high rate of cancers and other diseases in fish as well as humans associated with this is reflected in our aquariums and our society.

This is shorter, although I don't know how coherent it is as an explanation as I'm falling asleep sitting up.
Anyway, night all, and hope this makes it a little easier to read.

 

[Frollickyfish]

The gist of the above - given very roughly - is that certain man-made chemicals affect the body by mimicking cellular signals.
These are now present not only in our bodies, but in those of animals, including wildife in isolated areas, such as in the Arctic, where pollution collects due to weather and current patterns..
The results of these chemicals are manifold and often expressed as disease (including cancers, reproductive disorders and various immune system damage,) but also can profoundly affect the development of the foetus or the young in myriad ways.

The process mainly under discussion here is the creation of hermaphrodite fish and the alteration of genetically male fish into fully functional females.
This is not normal - in what we commonly term higher organisms, apart from such examples as certain snails and various insects, animals are typically either male or female.
If any animal intended to be either male or female has both sets of genitalia, there is something very, very wrong.
And a recent and growing prevalence is now known to be due to the action of endocrine disrupting chemicals.

In groundbreaking independent studies, it has been shown that these chemicals can attach to genetic material - without, however physically altering DNA - and randomly alter the unimaginably complex orchestrated cellular communication and biological interplay continually ongoing at uncountable billions of actions approximately in the time it take you to blink.
These endocrine disrupting chemical genetic attachments and their disastrous and far-reaching effects are as heritable as eye colour, and produce, according to the results of research and the effects seen in both human and animal populations, even worse effects in all forseeable generations of offspring than occurred in the original parents exposed.

When you breed fish having both sets of genitals, you pass along the attached and heritable chemical attachment which has the capacity to distort the body and the functions of the body in that fish and all offspring so afflicted.
The high rate of cancers and other diseases in fish as well as humans associated with this is reflected in our aquariums and our society.

This is shorter, although I don't know how coherent it is as an explanation as I'm falling asleep sitting up.
Anyway, night all, and hope this makes it a little easier to read.

Other chemicals may also be causing similar problems too. Its been suggested that the bleach used to whiten disposable nappies can cause cancer and infertility especially in boys so if we are using such chemicals in cleaning products God knows what its doing to the environment as it goes back into the water supply, it will be effecting all living things in a negative way. Ive also heard that female birth control pills can cause such problems as it is passed back out in our urine and then ends up back in rivers and seas.

 

[chesterscot]

yeah i live not to far from the mersey and years ago they blamed the contraceptive pill on making the fish all turn female not sure how relavant this is lol
scot

 

[Syphoniera]

Frolickyfish and chesterscot, you've just supplied two absolutely relevant examples which demonstrate your understanding of the situation.
Hormones control not only numerous body functions at the cellular level and up, but sexual disparity.
One of the studies in the collection which will follow (once a scan has completed on the 'puter I need to reboot - I really must stop staggering off to bed or to do things while leaving the 'puter endlessly running) is one where both hormones and endocrine disrupters were used to create all-female spawns which then produced all-male spawns, by warping those of the undesired sex into its opposite.

Most betta sales are those of males: how many unscrupulous breeders, who are either unaware or uncaring of the consequences, are already using such chemicals to warp spawns so as to increase males for increased profits?

Loraxchick, with your background in marine biology, you probably know much or all of this, and also of the rapidly advancing dead spots in the ocean due to industrial pollution and other abuses which - apart from the obvious - are destroying much of the Earth's remaining oxygen production, produced by that source.
I was very glad to see you'd read this.

As anyone may or may not recall, and as I do myself only vaguely regarding this quote, a prominent biologist was quoted in various newspapers some time back as saying that the discovery of hermaphrodite fish in waterways near pollution sources was the scariest thing he'd ever encountered.
Genetic warping - whether GM viral/structural or the results of heritable chemical attachments - is forever and, when wide-spread and/or spreading, destroys the original line, developed, in a coherent and interconnected fashion through functionality enabling survival, over mindboggling millions of years of development and cellular communication/cooperation.
The ecology, like our biological systems, may struggle along despite accumulating damage and dysfunction for some time, even when already failing.
But the fast-approaching tipping point is being added to by a multitude of commercial sources, in a multitude of ways, due to short-sighted thinking and the inability to see beyond short-term profit characteristic of the large corporations which have moved into/influence government, the universities and research facilities.

And as long as we accept and propagate such notions as that hermaphrodite fish are 'normal' or that young male Betta Splendens have supposedly developed the sexual organs of the opposite sex to avoid aggression from older males - even while knowing that aggression is displayed between the different sexes in Betta Splendens so that they typically cannot be kept together - we teach those reading and otherwise encountered to accept this as well, unknowingly spreading disinformation on a widening basis until it becomes a social mythology.

And if we are not aware of the facts, we'll continue to be easily fooled and led down the graveyard path.

 

[tibby25731]

This world has become a very scary place Unfortunately I don't think this sort of damage will ever get reversed, people just don't understand it enough to do anything to help.

 

[Syphoniera]

This world has become a very scary place Unfortunately I don't think this sort of damage will ever get reversed, people just don't understand it enough to do anything to help.

Very true - but even some degree of awareness of the facts and the transmission of accurate information among the public may have an effect in limiting the additional damage done by industry in the mindless pursuit of profit.
Such public awareness sometimes empowers political representatives who (all too rarely) wish to act in the interests of the public they exist to represent rather than those of powerful industry, to speak up and/or to refuse support for bills destructive to public and environmental concerns.
And that's one reason why it's so important that the facts at least be known, even if no action is taken by most individuals.

What follows is related to the previous info on epigenetic damage/hermaphroditism among fish and others and is generally important to us all, if specific to bettas - and may well already be having an effect on our ability to breed - and even keep healthy and alive - our own.



As anyone who has read through legitimate epigenetic studies/info realizes, the types of exposure described below in inducing sex change result also in profound changes in other cellular signaling, in immune system damage and susceptibility to disease, including cancers, which - considering that we only recognise the most obvious exterior tumours in pet fish, and even acknowledging that many apparent tumours may be encysted parasites or localized infections - appear to be now perhaps as prevalent among betta fish as they have become among humans, with progressive increase evident over the decades.
And it has been shown that when endocrine-disrupting epigenetic attachments are passed as genetic heritage to progeny, these exhibit a greater occurrence throughout subsequent generations of such disease, as the tendency to cellular miscommunication has been artificially incorporated into the very structure of their being.
Such damage should not be passed along in deliberate breeding, if it is anymore avoidable.
Although, as seen below, the emphasis placed on the production of exclusively STERILE male bettas for commercial sales may render the question of healthy progeny academic.

The most obvious results which are superficially visible (as seen in social encounters/photos) of sex changes among adult humans seem more dependent upon hormone supplementation/alteration even than surgery.
It appears that fish can achieve a more complete physiological alteration.
Of course, at various stages of development, the embryo and the young are far more susceptible to permanent alteration in virtually any area...

(For those who wish to avoid plowing through in-depth info and would prefer a short version, read the last abstract and comment; at least you'll get an idea of some aspects of the issues.)

From some of the more pertinent studies collected by and available on:

http/www.ibcbettas.org/StadBylawsForms/S...t_1975-1998.pdf

...
George, T., T. J. Pandian, et al. (1994). “Inviability of YY zygotes of the fighting fish,

Betta splendens.” Israeli Journal of Aquaculture Bamidgeh 46(1): 3-8.

Feminization was achieved in the fighting fish, Betta splendens, by

treating 3-day old fry with 20 mg diethylstilbesterol, 50 mg 17 alphaethynylestradiol

or 125 mg beta-estradiol per kg food for 40 days. Sex reversed

heterogametic females (XY) were identified by progeny testing. Eggs collected

from these females were activated with UV irradiated Oreochromis mossambicus

sperm and subjected to pressure shock at 7000 psi for 6 min to induce diploidy.

However, the YY males of B. splendens were not viable and succumbed before

hatching.

Gerlovich, J. A. and G. A. Lucas (1972). “A study of some effects of water chemistry on

growth of Betta splendens.” Proceedings of the Iowa Academy of Science 79(1):

38-40. ...

...

(My comment : The conclusions below are presented from a viewpoint which may have been ignoring the situation regarding fish generally, specifically regarding epigenetic/genetic damage widely accumulated by that point in time, as well as the varied degree of cellular/multi-system distortion potentiated by the treatment given test fish.

And if all-male sterile bettas were to be predominately produced for sale in commercial venues, due to large-scale suppliers following this tactic, no-one could any longer breed their own using commonly available stock, and reliance on the part of stores on these rather than local home breeders would be increased.

What a great way to start the sort of global monopoly aimed at by GM-related industry on grains, pigs and other essential sources of foodstuff!)

...

Kavumpurath, S. and T. J. Pandian (1992). “The development of all-male sterile triploid

fighting fish (Betta splendens Regan) by integrating hormonal sex reversal of

broodstock and chromosome-set manipulation.” Israeli Journal of Aquaculture-

Bamidgeh. 44(4): 111-119.

Feminization was obtained in Betta splendens by the oral administration of

125 mg beta-estradiol per kg food. The shortest period during which 100%

feminization could be achieved was 40 days beginning from the first feeding.

Progeny testing confirmed the completeness of sex reversal. Eggs (2.5 min old)

from sex-reversed females were pressure shocked at 7000 psi for 6 min to induce

all-male, less aggressive triploids with an average survival of 45%. Our results

provide evidence for male heterogamety in B. splendens.



( A [previously conducted] study forming a [pre]rebuttal re male heterogamety in bettas will later follow: also - out of curiosity, does this, below, then indicate evidence for triploidy in bettas?

Note also that what sounds like lethargy in the triploid bettas [which I'd consider most likely due to dysfunction as a result of both the methods used and the ensuing aberrant chromosome development with accompanying disorders] is attributed only to an aggression-related response - even though reduced air gulping and undulating movements - normal activities not strenuous for a normal, healthy betta - are included.

Fish that are not feeling very well/energetic might in some circumstances be irritable but in others might very likely behave less aggressively, and be more unsure of their ability to beat an opponent if feeling weak or lacking in the finer areas of physical control...

What does this do to enzyme function, for example? Or any and all other essential functions, from the disrupted cellular level up?

The GM/epigenetic version of a childhood counting chant:

Eenie, meany, gene no mo

Haploid, diploid, triploid, go

Are these all the same, you know?

What's breeding true? Oh, nothing? So?

Great for both hopscotching AND skipping right over complex biological realities.)

Kavumpurath, S. and T. J. Pandian (1992). “Effects of induced triploidy on aggressive

display in the fighting fish, Betta splendens Regan.” Aquaculture and Fisheries

Management 23(3): 281-290.

Triploidy was induced in the fighting fish, Betta splendens Regan, by

varying all possible combinations of temperature (37-41.degree.C), time after

insemination (2-3 min) and shock duration (2-4 min). Heat shock at 39.degree.C

for 3 min duration inititated 2.5 min after insemination gave high frequencies of

triploids (86%) as assessed from chromosome number and red blood cell nuclear

volume. There was no significant difference in the growth rate of triploid and

diploid fish. Gonadal development in both sexes was retarded in triploids at 5

months of age. Eggs fertilized with milt from triploids developed to gastrulation.

Beyond gastrulation there was increasing mortality associated with abnormalities

and none of them hatched. The display frequencies of air gulping, erection of

operculum and fins, striking and biting, and undulating movements were fewer in

triploid compared to diploid. It appears that triploids are less aggressive than

diploids. The aggressive behaviour of fighting fish may be related to their

reproductive activity.

Kavumpurath, S. and T. J. Pandian (1993). “Determination of labile period and critical

dose for sex reversal by oral administration of estrogens in Betta splendens

(Regan).” Indian Journal of Experimental Biology 31(1): 16-20.



Three day old Betta splendens fry were administered 17-alpha-ethynyl

estradiol (5-100 mg/kg of food), diethylstilbestrol (20-200 mg/kg of food), or

beta-estradiol (20-125 mg/kg food) orally for different periods of time (15 to 50

days) after hatching. The period during which 100% feminization could be

achieved extended for 40 days from the first day of feeding. Feminization

occurred in 100% individuals fed 20 mg diethylstilbestrol/kg food, 50 mg 17-

alpha-ethynyl estradiol/kg food for 125 mg beta-estradiol/kg food. From testing of

progeny and spawning of sex-reversed females it was noted that the natural

hormone, beta-estradiol, although required at higher dose for 100% feminization,

conferred functional equality on the treated individuals.

Kavumpurath, S. and T. J. Pandian (1994). “Induction of heterozygous and homozygous

diploid gynogenesis in Betta splendens (Regan) using hydrostatic pressure.”

Aquaculture and Fisheries Management 25(2): 133-142.

Optimum conditions for hydrostatic pressure treatment for duplication of

chromosome set in gynogenetically activated fighting fish, Betta splendens

(Regan), eggs were identified. Maximum survival of heterozygous gynogens was

50%, when 2.5-min-old eggs, after insemination with UV irradiated tilapia sperm,

were pressure shocked at 7000 psi for 6 min. The frequency (21%) of

homozygous gynogenetic fry was high, when the 34 min (post-insemination) old

eggs, which were inseminated with tilapia sperm, were pressure shocked for 5

min. Sex ratio of gynogenetic progeny suggested that the mechanism of sex

determination in this fish is homogametic female and heterogametic male.

Kavumpurath, S. and T. J. Pandian (1994). “Masculinization of fighting fish, Betta

splendens Regan, using synthetic or natural androgens.” Aquaculture and

Fisheries Management 25(4): 373-381.

The effects of two synthetic androgens, 17-alpha-methyltestosterone (5-50

mg/kg food), 19-nor-ethynyltestosterone (2-50 mg/kg food) and two natural

androgens, 11 ketotestosterone (10-60 mg/kg food) and androstenedione (20-100

mg/kg food) were investigated in the fighting fish, Betta splendens Regan.

Androgens were administered for 40 days from the first day of feeding.

Masculinization occurred in 100% of individuals fed 8, 15, 60, 90 mg/kg food 19-

nor-ET, 17-alpha-MT, 11-KT and AT respectively. Mortality due to treatment of

natural steroids was significantly less than that with the synthetic steroids. Sexreversed

males were sexually functional and their genotype was identified by

progeny testing. Sex-reversed males produced 100% female monosex when mated

with normal females, indicating that the mechanism of sex determination in this

fish is homogametic female and heterogametic male.

(My comment - I'd like to repeat from above, for anyone taking estrogen and told the type makes no difference to health: ... Mortality due to treatment of natural steroids was significantly less than that with the synthetic steroids. ...

Also from above: '... Eggs fertilized with milt from triploids developed to gastrulation.

Beyond gastrulation there was increasing mortality associated with abnormalities and none of them hatched. ...'

Sometimes low hatch rates among spawns may be due to damage and deformity passed on through parents, rather than conditions in the breeding tank...)

...



Kolliker, F., R. A., M. G. Failla, et al. (1990). “Variations of the cAMP levels in fish

ovaries: effect of human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro and of haloperidol in

vivo'.” Acta Physiologica et Pharmacologica Latinoamericana 40(1): 81-91.

An assay for the determination of gonadotropic activity in female fish, was

developed based in the measurment of cAMP variations in the ovary by a

competitive binding assay. The conditions for the in vitro induction procedure by

human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) were established with Cichlasoma facetum

ovaries: 1) preincubations in 1 ml of medium at 30.degree.C for 60 min; 2)

incubation in 1 ml of medium with or without hCG at 30.degree.C for 60 min.

This scheme was applied to ovaries of 3-4 month old Betta splendens sexually

mature. In a serious of experiments it was determined that 50 IU or more of hCG

per incubation tube produce a significative increase of cAMP with respect to

controls and that the response is dose dependent. The effect of an i.p. injection of

haloperidol (HPD), a dopamine antagonist, was studied in mature B. splendens

female 3-4 month old. The results showed a tendency to cAMP increase with low

doses (1 .mu.g/g of body weight), and a significative increase with higher doses

(10 .mu.g/g of body weight) after 6 from administration. No response was

observed after 24 h. This work shows that as in other teleosts, dopamine acts as an

inhibitor factor for the release of pituitary gonadotropin (GRIF) in B. splendens as

the administration of HPD induces an increase of gonadotropic activity.



(My comment - theories on the natural workings of the body, which have been developed from the results produced by distortion of natural processes through the introduction of other-specie hormones/chemicals, do not seem likely to be based on accurate data or to produce solid advance..

Note that the concept of balance is never considered - and appears to be unimaginable to those who seek profit from altering the way life organizes itself, lives, and is lived.

Individual genes do not control only one thing.

Instead a number of associated effects - from the development of multiple various bones/organs to colouration/shape of various parts, to the myriad and complex functions of the body at the cellular level - are actively commonly produced by single genes [in coordination with others], and others can potentially be produced when required, and latent others yet could potentially be produced but are typically not, sometimes because their expression in organisms proved to be to be grossly unsuitable for, or fatal impediments to survival through to, reproduction.

Though the millennia, successful adaptation has been achieved for each individual species under the circumstances of then-current development, using the potential of various genes [with positive epigenetic alteration now recognised as potentially playing a role as yet undetermined in extent, as far as my virtually non-existent knowledge goes] in cooperation with each other.

Successful adaptation does not include sterility, chromosomal/genetic/epigenetic damage, disease or deformity - anything potentially adversely affecting the ability to function normally, breed, and consistently pass on successful characteristics enabling breed survival as a whole.

Neither are these the characteristics we seek in our pets.

From what I gather, [very roughly,] processes are apparently typically balanced by 'control genes' triggering what's needed when needed, rather than separate 'inhibitor/promoter genes' [bewilderment expressed by commercial scientists at the discovery of this necessary and logical process, as a separate 'brake gene' and separate 'accelerator gene', in the relatively simplistic style of a motor car, was evidently - and apparently still is - expected, with even that mechanistic terminology used] the entire gene being in various cases knocked out/introduced by commercial GM interests to remove/add a single aspect [which is ONE apparent among unguessable numbers of interlinked active, intermittently acting and latent others present in a gene having developed in conjunction with the original rest of the genes in specific organisms each having specific requirements, historical and derived - this being important - current developmental capacities] of a complex, not-remotely-understood and interdependent whole.

During foetal development, a relatively minor alteration in the timing of cellular inter-signaling, which is so easily affected by endocrine disruptors, can cause monstrosities through this alone.

In the commonly seen portrayal presented by the profit-driven world of commercialized 'science', genes/hormonal/chemical signaling in simplified single-function typically either only inhibits or promotes a single sought-after result and can be used in some lucrative/manipulative manner; a profound and telling psychological give-away, and an attitude which prevents even the most general understanding of the complexity of evolved life, essentially [and again roughly] colonies of cooperative cells which became incredibly far more than the sum of their parts once cohesively acting together in varying essential roles as united organisms, working in coordinated, appropriately timed and virtually instantaneous intercommunication/interaction developed over millennia in forming coherent, functional individuals among the various species made possible by their comprehensive adaptability and often latent potential.

I am certainly not the only person to describe the viewpoint of commerce conducting/funding the great bulk of genetic 'research' as a Lego-block mentality.

It’s appallingly descriptive.)

...

(The [pre-existing] 'rebuttal' mentioned above.

(From below: ... These spawnings resulted in all female broods or mixed broods. Were the male fish heterogametic, a view currently held by some authors, no males would be produced in these spawnings. Thus, male heterogamety was not substaintiated in this study. ...

Not that I know anything about it, but it's illustrative of the degree to which method and subjectivity affect results/conclusions presented as those of scientific study - this typically especially noticeable among those commercializing procedures, such as those intended to alter genes or basic functions/capabilities in living organisms.

Note that below surgery was used, rather than hormones/endocrine disruptors which would create further various untoward effects through disruption of multiple normal processes and thereby obviate all chance of establishing or evaluating a norm.)

Lowe, T. P. and J. R. Larkin (1975). “Sex reversal in Betta splendens Regan with

emphasis on the problem of sex determination.” Journal of Experimental Zoology

191(1): 25-32.

To gain insight into the sex-determining mechanism of the Siamese

fighting fish, Betta splendens, sex-reversed individuals were bred and the ratios of

the spawnings were examined. Sex-reversal of 245 females was undertaken by

ovariectomizing them; of these, 104 became sex- reversed. Twenty-three of these

latter fish were mated to normal females and eleven spawnings were raised to

maturity. These spawnings resulted in all female broods or mixed broods. Were

the male fish heterogametic, a view currently held by some authors, no males

would be produced in these spawnings. Thus, male heterogamety was not

substaintiated in this study. Contrary to other studies, the experimental sex

reversal of females is not a rare event since nearly two-thirds of the fish that

survived the surgery became sex-reversed. Gross dissection and histological

observation of sex-reversed fish revealed a regenerated, unpaired duct which

remained after the ovaries had been removed. The tissue of the regenerate was

testicular and contained active spermatogenesis. Some alterative methods of sex

determination which may apply to the Betta are examined. These include the

possibility of two different sex-determining races, the effects of exogenous

factors, and a polygenic system of sex determination.

Lucas, G. A. (1969). “A study of variation in the Siamese fighting fish Betta splendens

with emphasis on color mutants and the problem of sex determination.” Diss

Abstr B Sci Eng 29(9): 3210-B.

(From above:' ... Contrary to other studies, the experimental sex reversal of females is not a rare event since nearly two-thirds of the fish that

survived the surgery became sex-reversed. ...'

My working hypothesis, based on such facts as that: while tests conducted earlier would have used animals from a population pool not yet so much exposed/affected, endocrine disruptors such as DDT had already produced profound effects even in wildlife by that time, [the mid-1970s, such effects having been drawn to public notice to some extent in the 1960s by Rachel Carson, who died of breast cancer, this, with prostate cancer, being among the most common caused by endocrine disruptors] the likelihood of sex reversal progressively increasing over the years as damage was accumulated by increasing types and number of exposures among a widening global pool.

Therefore, the potential for sex reversal due to such exposures could have been expected to have become far more common - at least in more affected areas/population groups - by the time this study was conducted than it would have been perhaps a decade previous.

And a higher proportion of offspring would logically be more affected as the exposures and effects became more pronounced in various parents.

Also - what chemicals were used in and because of the surgery, or prior to this, or were simply present in the environment/food?

In one representative example of in-lab contamination/confounding, a high rate of cancer in control animals was traced to the presence of asbestos being shed from lab counters, in another, to endocrine disruptors leaching from plastic water containers, while in many of the more recent cases, such rates of disease in controls appears simply to be ignored with the excess percentage in test animals merely counted - or discounted - as a result.

There are now so many, and progressively more common, causes of cancers and other diseases/dysfunctions in all environments...

Note below that a plastic divider, thought to be inert, exerted influence over the behaviour and social interactions of bettas.

Plastics, of course, (being derived from fossil fuel/petrochemical sources,) contain endocrine disruptors, with some types leaching more than others.)

......



Bronstein, P. M. (1984). “Agonistic and reproductive interactions in Betta splendens.”

Journal of Comparative Psychology 98(4): 421-431.

Reproductive and agonistic behaviors in Siamese fighting fish were

investigated in eight experiments, and some consequences and determinants of

these sequences were isolated. First, fights and the formation of dominancesubordinancy

relations were studied. Second, it was determined that large body

size as well as males' prior residency in a tank produced an agonistic advantage;

the magnitude of this advantage was positively related to the duration of

residency. Third, the prior-residency effect in Bettas was determined by males'

familiarity with visual and/or tactile cues in their home tanks. Fourth, dominant

males had greater access to living space and were more likely to display at a

mirror, build nests, and approach females than were subordinates. Finally, it was

discovered that chemical cues associated with presumedly inert plastic tank

dividers influence Bettas' social behavior.

Bronstein, P. M. (1984). “A confound in the application of fixed-ratio schedules to the

social behaviour of male Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens).” Bulletin of the

Psychonomic Society 22(5): 484-487.



...

(My comment - now we get to the actual point of those previous studies which were more the published method/preparation for this than the foundation of a theory being tested.

Not only a way to attain high levels of the most popular selling sex of these fish but, because sterility is a basic criteria, also the way to potentially gain an ultimate commercial monopoly in supplying a (patented?) popular pet which is commonly bred for fun by hobbyists and often given away...)

Pandian, T. J. (1993). “Endocrine and chromosome manipulation techniques for the

production of all-male and all-female populations in food and ornamental fishes.”

Proceedings of the Indian National Science Academy Part B Biological Sciences

59(6): 549-566.

By administering selected natural and synthetic androgens and estrogens

through feed or water, all-male and all-female populations of Oreochromis

mossambicus, Betta splendens and Poecilia reticulata were produced. An in depth

study on the labile period. during which sex reversal is possible, was made.

Solubilizability of 17-alpha-ethynyltestosterone in DMSO, ethanol and acetone

was bioassayed through sex reversal in tilapia. Allo-and auto-triploids produced

in O. splendens and Brachydanio rerio, were studied for their survival, growth

and degree of sterility. Meiotic and mitotic gynogens were also obtained in these

three species. Judiciously combining suitable endocrine reversal produced in O.

mossambicus and P. reticulata. ...



So, if these artificially 'sex-determined' bettas are (and I've no info on this, just repeated and reliable experience that any route to a potential profit-maker/monopoly will likely be utilized by some, with the radical increase in hermaphrodites as well as cancers and susceptibility to other illness among bettas supporting the possibility, although now-ever-more-common environmental and other exposures certainly account for many instances) being commercially produced for a high rate of higher-selling (sterile: non-breedable and possibly someday available only from certain commercial sources?) males, (that being the type of commercialized exploitation the study was designed to establish as feasible,) this further complicates more than just the sexing issue.

Hermaphrodite fish are not normal, and we need to be aware of the issues most deeply affecting our pets and, in some cases, our breeding hobby or business.

And if we breed, we should be breeding for the best, and to maintain the best of the original, which seems likely to rapidly be lost in the mix of GM/hormonally/chemically epigenetically/genetically challenged/altered fish.

 

[Netty]

OMG......I think I've just gone blind

 

[Neon.Tetra]

ZOMG! Fish that change sex!?

It's like Jurrasic Park! But on a smaller, and cuter scale!

On a more serious note. Mankind will be the death of Mankind.

 

[ThePiggy]

Women will inherit the earth.

 

[Syphoniera]

Women will inherit the earth.

If it's because all we girls are turned into guys to do it, it seems rather moot.
But at least it wouldn't matter whether we gained 5 pounds or not...


Neon.Tetra,
your statement is all too true.
And it's particularly unfortunate that we seem to be taking everything else with us.
But if we make it evident that we ARE informed and not being fooled into acceptance, then at the least we are passing accurate info along to mis- or uninformed others when the subject arises, and at the best, the official knowledge of public awareness may well limit the damage so blithely done - and unquestioned because not publicly known or understood.

Hi Netty,
sorry about that and I hope your seeing-eye fish will step in until you recover.
But at least you're not now travelling blind in another sense.

 

[bronzecat]

Women will inherit the earth.

Down hill all the way then!

 

[Netty]

Oooooo.....I can assure all you women that Bronzecat just got a slap for that remark

 

[Syphoniera]

Oooooo.....I can assure all you women that Bronzecat just got a slap for that remark

Thanks, Netty.
I'll make this comment short in gratitude, just for you.