Over Feeding And It's Hazards

[Mikaila31]

I guess you could say I overfeed. I intentionally put pellets deep into the plants. The shrimp need food and the fish never leave any bits. If the shrimp don't eat it all, IDK the snails will. If the snails don't it will break down. Plants will be happy. Nitrates are not a major issue IMO, unless you are extremely overfeeding.

Fish should be quite hungry when you feed them. IMO the biggest harm of overfeeding is actually the fish consuming too much. If my fish don't go after the food as fast as they can then something is wrong. You need to be careful with fish like rainbows. Large rainbows always act like they are starving. That is normal. When I had my bows, they would send water flying because they ate so fast. They would go after food a couple inches from the surface.

Be careful with koi. I swear food is more important to them than being able to breath.

 

[three-fingers]

When food goes into your filter, it DOES breakdown.

Of course...where did anyone ever suggesr that it doesnt?

That all it can do. When it breaks down, bad bacteria fester in it.

Now you see, that part doesnt make sense. What do you mean by "fester"? It's a very odd and incredibly general word to use. Do you mean that they multiply massively as this food breaks down, or are you trying to say that the food somehow generates these "bad" bacteria?

Which species of bacteria re you talking about, and what makes them bad anyway? There's loads of different species of bacteria living in our tanks breaking down fish poop, dead plant leaves and other organic material already, what's wrong with them multiplying a little in the filter to break down some fish food? They are already in the tank in massive numbers, nothing new is being introduced.

These decomposing bacteria in the filter are doing nothing that the fish aren't, they are just eating the food and producing ammonia, which the nitrifying bacteria also in the filter should easily be able to take care of .

It's kind of like throwing an apple on the floor and letting it rot. Cockroaches and other disease carrying bugs come to it. When they start multiplying, the odds of your fish getting a internal or external bacterial infection are a lot higher than they should be normally.

No, it's completely different. Cockroaches coming into a house and introducing a disease from elsewhere is nothing like bacteria that are already existent in huge numbers in the aquarium multiplying in the filter to consume some extra fish flakes.

The only reason fish could be more likely to suffer from disease is if water quality with regards to ammonia, nitrite or occasionally nitrate was to degrade from massive over-feeding (like dumping in a whole tub into a small tank) or if the tank doesnt have a mature bacterial population or sufficient filtration. But that's already been covered.

 

[kribensis12]

You used the whole quote, so I started off by stating that is does break down. When I say fester, I mean congregate. In which they multiply. Of course your not introducing any bacteria into the tank (unless your flakes were contaminated? I guess thats a possibility). But, your giving them a chance to reproduce into numbers that aren't normal.

EX: Your house is simply crawling with bacteria. So there is always a chance for you to get sick. But, if you give them a food source, they multiply and increase in numbers, giving you a greater opportunity of getting infected.

Sure, your fish have immune systems, and they are used to the bacteria in the tank, but when there are more than normal, their immune systems are not as likely to hold up.

 

[england]

I certainly do not over feed my fish, i feed my fish so sporadically they do not have a clue when feeding time will happen, the only thing that is

constant is they come every time i go to the tank and lift the lid, I had not fed my fish since thurs,just fed them now,prob feed

a little tommorow then miss a couple of days,etc etc

 

[three-fingers]

You used the whole quote, so I started off by stating that is does break down. When I say fester, I mean congregate. In which they multiply. Of course your not introducing any bacteria into the tank (unless your flakes were contaminated? I guess thats a possibility). But, your giving them a chance to reproduce into numbers that aren't normal.

EX: Your house is simply crawling with bacteria. So there is always a chance for you to get sick. But, if you give them a food source, they multiply and increase in numbers, giving you a greater opportunity of getting infected.

Sure, your fish have immune systems, and they are used to the bacteria in the tank, but when there are more than normal, their immune systems are not as likely to hold up.

Fair enough, though I would have hoped you didn't think I was that uneducated . "Fester" perhaps wasn't the best word to use (it has some very specific meanings, and a very general one), but I get what you mean now.

What defines "normal"? There is no definition for aquariums, all aquariums have different levels of bacteria based on the style of the setup and so many other factors such as pH and temperature.

Are you trying to say that decomposing bacteria that feed on waste fish food are pathogen causing in aquariums? Do you have any evidence for this?

In other words, hold up against what? Why/how would these bacteria cause disease in fish?

You already mentioned "bad bacteria" but failed to say what species they are and why they are bad?

You seem to be implying that all bacteria are bad?

 

[star4]

Very intersting reading, I know which tanks of mine are over fed and which are under. My fry tank and 300l community tank sounds like someone frying an egg when I drop food in (the sucking sounds from the fish) and some of my fry will actually leap 1" above the water to take the food from my fingers. Where as my large cichlid tank they are far more chilled when I add "tub" food, but do go nuts for fresh food (veg prawns etc)

Thanks for that info?

 

[Honeythorn]

I feed mine every other day or two. I feed a small amount in the morning, and again in the evening. I also feed a few live foods at weekends.

 

[kribensis12]

You used the whole quote, so I started off by stating that is does break down. When I say fester, I mean congregate. In which they multiply. Of course your not introducing any bacteria into the tank (unless your flakes were contaminated? I guess thats a possibility). But, your giving them a chance to reproduce into numbers that aren't normal.

EX: Your house is simply crawling with bacteria. So there is always a chance for you to get sick. But, if you give them a food source, they multiply and increase in numbers, giving you a greater opportunity of getting infected.

Sure, your fish have immune systems, and they are used to the bacteria in the tank, but when there are more than normal, their immune systems are not as likely to hold up.

Fair enough, though I would have hoped you didn't think I was that uneducated . "Fester" perhaps wasn't the best word to use (it has some very specific meanings, and a very general one), but I get what you mean now.

What defines "normal"? There is no definition for aquariums, all aquariums have different levels of bacteria based on the style of the setup and so many other factors such as pH and temperature.

Are you trying to say that decomposing bacteria that feed on waste fish food are pathogen causing in aquariums? Do you have any evidence for this?

In other words, hold up against what? Why/how would these bacteria cause disease in fish?

You already mentioned "bad bacteria" but failed to say what species they are and why they are bad?

You seem to be implying that all bacteria are bad?

When I said normal, I meant the common amount in your tank (assuming your not overfeeding). YOur fish would not be able to easily handle the influx of bacteria when the bacteria multiply.

Some of the bacteria thatlive in your tank do cause diseaes. I could not name the type(s) of them, but they are there. If they weren't, then why would fish get sick? Wethere or not I am able to name the specie(s) does not mean they do not exist. Only a fool would imply that all bacteria are bad. That's beyond ridiculous.

 

[three-fingers]

When I said normal, I meant the common amount in your tank (assuming your not overfeeding). YOur fish would not be able to easily handle the influx of bacteria when the bacteria multiply.

Some of the bacteria thatlive in your tank do cause diseaes. I could not name the type(s) of them, but they are there. If they weren't, then why would fish get sick? Wethere or not I am able to name the specie(s) does not mean they do not exist. Only a fool would imply that all bacteria are bad. That's beyond ridiculous.

Fish get sick when they have a lowered immune system, usually due to stress (be it from water quality or other factors), or when a disease is introduced to the aquarium from an outside source. The lowered immune system cannot easily fight off pathogenic organisms present in the aquarium.

I'm not saying they are no pathogenic bacteria present in most aquariums, what I am saying is that these bacteria are different from the ones that consume fish food.

I'm by no means saying that your a fool, but that is basically what you are implying, you are saying that the decomposing bacteria that break down waste in our filters are pathogenic without any evidence to support your claim. So your saying tanks with soil substrates, lots of wood, leaves or any other dead organic material are bad for fish because the bacteria that consume these food sources are pathogenic...

What do you think the environments fish come from the wild are like? Squeaky-clean? Most omnivorous fish regularly consume decomposing food full of these bacteria and suffer no ill effects. Why would having more of these decomposing bacteria in the filter harm the fish?

I'm sure in some very extreme cases, extremely high levels of otherwise harmless bacteria may have an impact on a fish immune system, but for the average "over fed" aquarium - I see no reason to waste time worrying about it.

Hell, you may as well be saying that the nitrification bacteria on the the filter are pathogenic too, and that heavily stocked tanks with big bio-filters, and mature tanks are bad for fish because of the increased number of bacteria.

Now, I'm not advertising anyone go ahead and dump in as much fish food as your fish can handle every feeding time, all I'd say is that if you need to feed your tank extra to make sure all the fish get food, or to feed the plants or just because you enjoy watching them eat - go right ahead, assuming your water stats remain OK.

"Steve from Angelsplus" seems to be very experienced and I'm sure he's a great guy that has huge success with his fish. But that doesnt mean every word he says suddenly becomes scientific fact.

 

[OldMan47]

I must disagree there Krib. My fish have whatever bacteria are in their tank and they just don't seem to get sick. I not only do not believe that all bacteria are bad, I do not believe that increasing the bacteria population of benign bacteria, the ones not causing any disease symptoms, will cause any disease in my fish. I also don't worry over much about bacteria in my own environment. The things that my immune system can deal with will not make me sick whether there are 3 or 300000 of them present. The ones that can make me sick will do so the same way, whether there are 3 or 300000 present. The products that I see advertised on TV that kill 99.9% of disease causing bacteria on contact strike me as a way of developing resistance in the bacteria to those agents, not a way to make a healthier environment for me to live in. A relatively clean environment means that the variety of disease organisms is probably lower in my environment but trying to kill every last bacteria is a way to experience extreme stress, not a way to acquire health. Eating right and getting enough rest will enhance my ability to fend off infection and that will enhance my health.

 

[kribensis12]

When I said normal, I meant the common amount in your tank (assuming your not overfeeding). YOur fish would not be able to easily handle the influx of bacteria when the bacteria multiply.

Some of the bacteria thatlive in your tank do cause diseaes. I could not name the type(s) of them, but they are there. If they weren't, then why would fish get sick? Wethere or not I am able to name the specie(s) does not mean they do not exist. Only a fool would imply that all bacteria are bad. That's beyond ridiculous.

Fish get sick when they have a lowered immune system, usually due to stress (be it from water quality or other factors), or when a disease is introduced to the aquarium from an outside source. The lowered immune system cannot easily fight off pathogenic organisms present in the aquarium.

I'm not saying they are no pathogenic bacteria present in most aquariums, what I am saying is that these bacteria are different from the ones that consume fish food.

I'm by no means saying that your a fool, but that is basically what you are implying, you are saying that the decomposing bacteria that break down waste in our filters are pathogenic without any evidence to support your claim. So your saying tanks with soil substrates, lots of wood, leaves or any other dead organic material are bad for fish because the bacteria that consume these food sources are pathogenic...

What do you think the environments fish come from the wild are like? Squeaky-clean? Most omnivorous fish regularly consume decomposing food full of these bacteria and suffer no ill effects. Why would having more of these decomposing bacteria in the filter harm the fish?

I'm sure in some very extreme cases, extremely high levels of otherwise harmless bacteria may have an impact on a fish immune system, but for the average "over fed" aquarium - I see no reason to waste time worrying about it.

Hell, you may as well be saying that the nitrification bacteria on the the filter are pathogenic too, and that heavily stocked tanks with big bio-filters, and mature tanks are bad for fish because of the increased number of bacteria.

Now, I'm not advertising anyone go ahead and dump in as much fish food as your fish can handle every feeding time, all I'd say is that if you need to feed your tank extra to make sure all the fish get food, or to feed the plants or just because you enjoy watching them eat - go right ahead, assuming your water stats remain OK.

"Steve from Angelsplus" seems to be very experienced and I'm sure he's a great guy that has huge success with his fish. But that doesnt mean every word he says suddenly becomes scientific fact.

I sort of see what you are saying now. It just made sense to me, that some bacteria in your tank have to be bad. If not, you would never had problems. What would the bad bacteria feed off? Either decaying food, or the results of the decaying food. So, to me, it made sense that the more decaying food you have, the more harmful bacteria you have, the higher chance of your fish getting sick.

 

[OldMan47]

In my oddball view, harmful bacteria are harmful because they live off the fish and its resources, not because they can live off rotting food. If you have an infected fish in the tank, the harmful bacteria are multiplying on and in that fish. That is indeed dangerous to the other fish in the tank and is why we use quarantine or hospital tanks. I am far from an expert on disease but that is just the way that I look at it.

 

[kribensis12]

Just figuerd I'd bump this so other people can read it.

 

[BigFairy]

bad bacteria that of the like that causes columnaris/fin rot is always present in the acquarium. When conditions get prevalent enough, ie. heaps of rotting food allowing the population to get to excessive levels, then you have a problem in your tank.


I have just noticed 2 days a ago a slight spot on the tail of one of my tetra's in my 3 foot tank. This is a sign of conditions deterioating and i will be doing every thing possible to rectify it. One of these will be reduced feeding for the next 2 weeks.

 

[weejen]

i personaly dont think i over feed my fish they hover up every scrap of flake that hits the water and even sometimes before it hits the water.

we all have diff tanks with diff fish. i no i have to hand feed my plec cause my greedy tetras steal his alge wafers and swim off around the tank with the wafer in there mouths so he stands no chance of gettin food without my help. but to even hand feed him i have to distract the tetras ( buenos aires tetra maxing out at 4") with sinking pellets. the tetras all race off after whoever has the pellet in there mouth.

i also think snails are a good indicator of overfeeding cause we all no u end up with an out break of thoes pesky things if there is to much waste food lying about.

but i hope that my filter has a good coleny of bacteria to cope with a little extra ammonia produced by left over food. so no ammonia spike would be detected