Out of my depth newbie needs adice

[AL_G]

Hi peeps,


I am a complete newbie to this fish keeping lark and need some help and advice from you guys as i feel i've probably already made several mistakes setting up our new tropical fish tank

Previous experience: Not much really, I do have a fish pond which i've sucessfully kept a range of Goldfish, Tench, Orf, Koi etc for the last couple of years with only a couple of deaths.

Current setup: We have an average size aquarium which measure 100x40x45 i think, holds about 30 UK Gallons. It has an external fluval 404 filter, heater set at about 74 degrees. It has a sand base and is well planted. It currently contains 9 Neons.

Where i've probably already gone wrong: We got the tank, filled it with tap water. Added tap water treatment, added some filter start / cycle. Left it running for a couple of weeks did a water test every thing measured ideal apart from the PH which was 8.5 (thats how it is out of the tap) so we added some PH down and now the PH is nearer 7.5 (after reading this site i realise this was in the list of newbie no nos - Doh!) anways we added some Neon 2 weeks ago and they're still alive and would like to add some more fish next week (dunno what kind yet).

The reason I'm here is because i know that i cannot keep adding PH down all the time and part of periodic maintenance is to do a partial water change, but i know if i do this with our tap water the PH will creep up again. And all the fish books i've seen say that the fish we want require a PH of around 6.5 to 7.5 How am i going to get this tank set up nicely?

Any advice gratefully received

AL

 

[Bloo]

Firstly to TFF !

Which country and where do you live ?
Have you tried adding some bogwood to your tank ? That (generally over a period of time) reduces pH a bit.

If you got your fish from a local shop, there is no need to lower the pH, because that's where they came from. pH fluctuations are dangerous and a stable but higher pH is a lot safer than a lower but fluctuating one - and added chemicals. Not good.....

Neons actually need quite a low pH so if you are going to struggle obtaining that, you might want to thing about fish that are less fragile and happy to live at higher pH levels. Neons are also notoriously fragile and generally don't do well at all in new tanks. They stand a better chance in tanks of 6 months maturity or older.

Before you add any new fish, make sure your tank is cycled and your nitrites and ammonia levels are zero. Only add a few fish at a time to give the filter time to adjust the bioload and not throw your tank into a cycle again.

Good luck !

 

[AL_G]

Thanks for your reply and the warm welcome Bloo, I live just down the road from you in Hampshire. I shall not be adding any more chemicals. Yeah, there are a couple of bits of wood in the tank as i was hoping to one day get some small catfish and maybe a plec which i know like to hide. Maybe i'll shove another lump in there?

Any suggestions for what kind of fish i should add next? Once the tank readings are ideal again that is!

Thanks again

AL

 

[Bloo]

Well my tapwater has a pH over 8 and with the bogwood it's reduced to a nice 7.4 over time. But it really just depends on the water to wood ratio and sometimes the individual piece of wood.

Some people might also recommend adding peat to the filter to lower the pH - but you'll have to like a definite yellow/brown tinge to your water if you want to follow that route. It's good for the fish, but some people don't like the discoloration.

In my one planted tank I've added CO2 and that brought the pH down to 7.2
but unless you want to invest in a fully planted tank and the hassle of CO2 maintenance, it's not worth it just for the sake of trying to drop the pH a notch.

In the extreme, you can invest in an RO unit, but these devices are costly and very time consuming. For more info, see this article - I know it's written specifically for Discus people, but the principal is the same for whichever fish you choose to use RO water for.

I have a mixed bag of fish - apart from those with a definite liking for lower pH - such as neons and also Rams. I've tried and failed and it's just not worth it.

Best to go to your lfs and see what they have there and what you like.
Most fish will generally tolerate a higher pH than is "ideal" and they will even thrive. Just don't expect them to breed with great gusto and success.

Here's a great article on pH, gH and kH. With such a high pH, my guess is that you will also have a hight kH & gH as I do. (my kH = 11 and gH = 17 )

 

[Clairel]

Ive got a lovely large piece of bogwood for my tank today !! Ive boiled it, left it soaking, and rinsed thoroughly for a couple of hours, till the water ran clear, then ive put it into my new big tank.

My smaller tank, ph is fine, but i was too a little concerned as my larger tank ph level was 1.0 higher....

Hope this sorts it out

Good luck with your fish

C x

 

[dwarfgourami]

Hi and welcome!

I'm in Hampshire too, so I've got the same water to cope with.

In my livebearer tank I did nothing at all, since livebearers don't mind. My platies and guppies seem happy as things are; in fact, so happy that we are shortly going to have to get another tank....

In my cory tank I put in two chunks of bogwood, having boiled them first to get some of the tannin out (not dangerous but makes your tank go brown). This brought the ph down from 8.4 to 8. The corys seem happy with this, if spawning repeatedly is a sign of happiness.

I have decided not to mess with chemicals and RO, but just accept that there are certain things, like breeding neons and keeping discus, that I'm not going to be able to do.

In your situation you are obviously concerned about your neons- and they do like more acid water. Even so, I would have thought strong fluctuations would be more of a shock to their system, so that even they would be better off with the gentle leaking of acidity from bogwood, rather than adding PHdown. Make sure to keep the water nice and clean for them, and phase the PHdown out with gradual water changes.

Instead of the pleco (they can grow large and produce a lot of waste), I would recommend a small school of 4-5 corydoras. Very pleasant friendly fish and get on with everybody. The one thing they will not do is eat algae- but then you can always clean that up yourself. Or if you want a pleco, a bristlenose stays quite small.

 

[AL_G]

Cheers for your comments dwarf, I definately like the look of those little cat fish and they were on my list of fish to get, fortunately they're not too fusy about PH level.

As for the neons, they seem to be happy enough, but to be honest how can you tell? Reason i went with neons first is because i thought they would have the least impact on the tank as they're so small, i guess time will tell if they can cope with the PH of my tank, but like i say they seem quite healthy.

I quite like the idea about the bristle nose, reason i mentioned a plec, is they are just something a bit different, i like the wierd and wonderful

 

[ncjharris]

Woo Hoo, Hampshire all the way (sort of).

Anyhow, welcome too, you've got some good advice there, you mentioned you tested the water, so I am assuming by that you mean Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite and thats all ok.

Main point of my post was to say that (depending where you are in Hants) there are a lot of good shops around here. We have a high concentration of Maidenheads, plus a lot of good LFS's and most of the garden centres have an aquatic section. Whether they are any good or not really depends on the centre.

Ahh, just read you keep koi, so I guess you'll know that anyway.

Good Luck, and hope to hear how its going soon!

 

[Pixie25]

hey i live in berkshire - i went to my local pet shop to pick up some supplies today and i had a look at the fish section, and i was horrified at the amount of dead fish in the tanks! it was horrendous.

so i decided to look up an aquatics centre in my area - by 'maidenheads' are you by any chance referring to maidenhead aquatics centres? i found one just down the road from me and it was like walking into an aladdins cave! the best looking fish ive ever seen for sale in my area! i know they have a few branches, the staff are really helpful too.

i know where im going to be stocking my tanks from

 

[AaronD]

Hi Al

i know some people have suggested various methods to bring down the ph. But these will not be instant changes. The water ph you put into the tank will still be very high, so a lower ph in your tank but high ph in water change would mean fluctuations.

i mean, what would happen if you needed to do a large water change! ph will be all over the place!

I would have thought, first of all, consider keeping cichlids instead? they require a higher ph, and in my opinion are very nice fish to keep.

Or buy an RO unit, and have a mix of RO water and tap water to bring down the ph yet keep the minerals etc. As bloozoo said, its a slow, and wasteful process. But cost wise i dont think its too bad. £45 for a 2 stage filter from RO man. would prove good drinking water as well

...personally, i would probably go with cichlids. great fish, less hassle, something different

 

[ncjharris]

My reccomendation would not be to fiddle with the pH too.

As for Chiclids, lovely fish, but I wouldn't neccesarily say they were right for beginners? Mind you, I don't really have any experience of them!

There are plenty of other fish that can thrive in a higher pH (although 8.5 seems very high?)

 

[Bloo]

i mean, what would happen if you needed to do a large water change! ph will be all over the place!

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How large is large ?
As I said, my tap pH hovers around 8 to 8.2 but my tanks vary between 7.2 and 7.4 (with bogwood and CO2 etc). But I do weekly 30% (even up to 50%) water changes with no ill effects at all ?

So I guess as long as you don't keep fragile fish and the tank is "mature" it's no problem - in my opinion. I don't think it's a big deal.....

 

[AL_G]

I've got a couple of nearby branches of maidenhead aquatics and i too agree they are very good.

Thing about these test kits is it's kind of down to interpretation, i.e. comparing the colour of some water to a colour chart and seeing which is the best match. Are you supposed to look at the colour of the liquid held up to the light or not? Guess an electronic method would be more accurate by highly expensive.

Can't believe how many helpful replies i'm getting here, it's appreciated

As for monkeying about with the water, I've stopped that and will let it stabilise and see what happens. Even though i put in the correct amount of PH down it doesn't seem to have had any effect, I'm guessing this to do with living in a hard water area hence the water has a high buffer level? The PH seems to be around 8 at the mo. All other levels are either 0 (ideal) or close to it. I suppose having a big filter (for the tank size) helps with keeping the water clean.

My next question, how will i know when it's safe to add more fish? I'm monitoring the water quality and apart from high PH everything looks good.

Thanks again peeps

 

[smooth_bourbon]

What are your test results exactly?

Ammonia, ph, nitrite, nitrate

I personnally use bogwood in my aquariums and have not had a problem even with large water changes.

 

[Bloo]

My next question, how will i know when it's safe to add more fish?

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When you have consistent zero readings on ammonia and nitrIte.
And secondly if and when (in conjunction) your existing fish look "happy" and healthy

oh and if you have space of course !