Our First Aquarium Story

[OregonCoast]

Greetings everyone! Thank you for allowing me to join this forum! I want to post this story about our first aquarium and hopefully aquire some helpful, constructive feedback and advice, about our first aquarium that we purchased last month.
Since he is stationed in Seoul, South Korea (US ARMY), we cannot have any dogs, cats, or any other kind of mammal here in the city. So we threw around the idea of getting a fish tank..we both discovered that it was something that would be a fun hobby for the both of us to enjoy. Last month we purchased a 28liter (7.5 gal) tank that came with the basics, light, gravel etc..etc. We had already researched a bit about the nitrogen cycle and the overall tank cycle and what needed to be done before we set it up. We decided to do a fish cycle. After setting it up and allowing it to run a bit we purchased a goldfish to help set up the cycle. Neither one of us knew that a goldfish is not a good starter fish..that they are very high maintence and we purchased a small tank...making it a bit harder to maintain instead of a large one..unforuntately we cannot purchase a large tank as we are overseas. We purchased red cherry shrimp to clean up the bottom but we didnt know at the time that you cannot put goldfish and shrimp together...

). So far..the goldfish has done his/her job to set it up and it is now in its own little 4 gal cube tank all by himself. We really want a betta for this 28 liter tank so we ordered from amazon these items:
aquaclear 20 power filter
aquatop Digital 50W heater
BeamsWork 12" - 16" Single Bright Power LED aquarium light Fixture 200
We have since done a pretty good amount of research into what it takes to make a Betta happy and healthy. I think we have defied the laws of fish compatibility when I say this. Out of the 5 Cherry Shrimp that we purchased to be tankmates with the goldfish, 1 has survived (yes he ate 3 of them!).
Currently, the tank sits at a decent 78 degree temp..eventually we would like it to be 80 degrees (comfortable for bettas

The cycle has complete and the water is crystal clear. As the tank was cycling thru we have new current tankmates. We cannot use the tap water here as it is extremely hard water and utterly disgusting (We cannot drink it ourselves, why put it in with fish?) We use filtered water.
Current tankmates:
1 common pleco
2 bronze corydoras
1 cherry shrimp
3 ghost shrimp
eventually...we would like a Betta to join them. all are currently happy and healthy and comfortable with the fact that the goldfish is no longer in with them.
Here is the link to the current set up of the tanks. Please let us know what you think, anything to help us out. We do have test strips for the tanks 6-1, aquasafe, etc..we have done quite a bit of research but are looking for more knowledge and advice. 
Due to some recommendations of another forum, this tank we have currently is overstocked and the Pleco needs to come out. Is this the general consensus on this forum as well? We will only be in Korea for another year and will return fish to the pet store. We claim responsibility for the Pleco, if we get a larger tank...20-30 gal what fish would go good with the pleco? And if the pleco comes out of the current tank..is it still overstocked? If not..what fish can we put in it? We are not doing a planted tank nor a saltwater tank because we are stationed in South Korea.

 

[the_lock_man]

Do they not have XBox in South Korea then?
 
 
1) A goldfish is not suitable for a 4gallon cube. It grows huge, it needs a massive tank, and it produces a lot of waste. It alone will probably be overwhelming the filter in its tank
 
2) A common plec is not suitable for a 28l tank. It should grow to 24" long. It won't because it will become stunted.
 
Have a read of the blue link in my signature area, it'll explain why I say the above.
 
3) Bronze cories are a shoaling fish, they only feel comfortable in groups of 6 or more. Whilst 2 will survive in a 28l tank, they will live a life full of stress, and consequently will die much sooner than they otherwise would. 6 of these fish will not fit in a 28l tank.
 
4) A Betta will be quite happy on his own in a 28l tank.
 
Given that you are only living in South Korea for another year, my honest recommendation is to take everything back to where you got it, and leave the idea until you are settled back in the states (presumably in Oregon?), and then DO IT PROPERLY.
 
Please?
 
PS Are there any fish shops in Gangnam?

 

[OregonCoast]

We were looking for constructive critism..not for someone to pretty much insult us. I am sorry...did I reach the wrong forum? And yes...for your information..there are plenty of fish shops in Gangnam.

 

[the_lock_man]

I'm sorry if what I said wasn't what you wanted to hear. You asked what I thought, well in my opinion, you should not keep a goldfish in a 4gallon cube tank. I don't think you'll find many other people on this forum who will think it is a good idea. A goldfsih really needs a massive tank or a pond - it sounds to me as though you don't have that option, the only other viable option is to take it back. Sorry. There are no "Well, you might get away with doing this....." options. You need to take it back to the shop.
 
Ditto the common plec.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid lock_man is right (although he could have worded it less harshly!).
 
I know animal welfare is a lot different abroad, but we always try and promote best practice here.
 
Fish, like most other animals, do the majority of their growth when they're young; big fish like goldies and plecs can grow up to an inch a month in size, so keeping them in small tanks is not good for them and will probably kill them, or leave them stunted.
 
It would be for the best to rehome the goldfish, plec and corydoras (I know they may go to someone who won't look after them any better than you, but at least you won't have their deaths on your conscience) and just keep a betta and the shrimps in your little tank.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

We were looking for constructive critism..not for someone to pretty much insult us. I am sorry...did I reach the wrong forum? And yes...for your information..there are plenty of fish shops in Gangnam.

 
 
You seem to be someone who is willing to learn about best practices.  While lock_man was a little harsh in the way he presented his information, he is very correct.
 
 
You seem to like fishlore.com:
 
Here are some links about the fish in question.
Bronze Corydoras 

they are a schooling fish that will appreciate being kept in groups of at least 6 or more in the aquarium....
 
...Tank Size : 30 gallons (115 liters)

 
 
 
Common Pleco

The common plecostomus is well known as an algae eater and can often be found stuck to the side of your aquarium. Many will get very large with the common variety getting to be almost 18 inches (46 cm) and will outgrow most aquariums....
 
...Tank Size : Recommended to keep them in aquariums that are in the hundreds of gallons. Due to their potential adult size this is one of those species better left in the wild or kept in ponds. For the aquarium there are other smaller pleco species that are available. Smaller species include the Bristlenose pleco, the Gold Nugget pleco, Zebra pleco and the Clown pleco (linked in similar species below).

 
 
Goldfish

One common misconception is fish will only grow if given more tank space, this is partly true in that the external size of the fish will develop very slowly if left in a small tank or bowl, what is not so well known is the fishes internal organs continue to grow and develop with age and have nothing to do with the size of the tank, imagine an adult in a child’s body and you get the picture. This can lead to stress and a number of illnesses.

 
A goldfish generally requires at least a 20 gallon tank, and if you have a second goldfish, you'll need at least 30 gallons.  Each new goldfish will require at least another 10 gallons of volume in the tank.
 
 
Stick with the betta until you are back in the U.S. and then consider what fish you would like to keep, or better still consider how much space you have for a tank, and find fish that will be suitable for that tank.

 

[the_lock_man]

I'm afraid lock_man is right (although he could have worded it less harshly!).

 
 

While lock_man was a little harsh

 
I'm spotting a theme here....

 
Oregon, I have clearly caused you offence, and for that, I sincerely apologise.

 

[OregonCoast]

It wasn't the information that was given lock_man ...  It was the opening statement that sorta hit us and led us to believe you felt as if we should go back to playing video games because we're too stupid to own fish.  I know things are a little different in the UK as the US, and Americans tend to be offended easier than most.  So we just made a small reply, didn't flame back, and figured maybe this really just wasnt the place for us or we grossly misunderstood the message. And maybe your right...
 
I've already spent a small fortune on the tank and parts for the tank.  I had to order everything online from the US and have it shipped over here to South Korea, because my apartment I live in is wired for US standard.  EVERYTHING you buy off the military post is wired for 220V.  So unless I want to run transformers all over the place and use the limited floorspace I already have...  I'm pretty much doomed to this style of purchasing.  I'm Junior Enlisted (I'm the Hubby, I hijacked my wifes forum account)    so I don't make money to burn like crazy.  Also the tank and any other tank I purchse will probably turn to shards of glass as soon as we get ready to ship back to the US when my tour here is done.
 
I am not against buying a bigger tank but nothing more than at the VERY VERY top edge of the limits a 40 Gal, prefer 30ish.  I'm on the 13th floor of a highrise building.  I know the Pleco gets big, we did note this, and when we brought him home we asked the lady we bought him from (95 cents USD) if we could bring him back in a year when we have to leave.  She said as best I could understand she would give him a home in one of her show tanks!  Our Daughter understands that the Pleco will go to a new home when we leave because he gets too big and live too long for us to keep.
 
We read the Corys would do okay in groups of 3, but we only found 2 (Literally only FOUND 2).
 
So right now, I have about 400 USD into the 7.5 Gal tank because of shipping and the crap we bought.  The tank came with a 220 filter and 220 light that we can't use.  Tank Starting stuff from Tetra, that was 6x the cost of the same stuff in the US.  I spent a little over 85 USD buying the aquasafe, safestart, and Balance stuff or whatever it's called.  They have Korean brand stuff here, but I can't read what it is for sure.
 
We're also not against doing daily water changes for the Gold Fish.  We got the Gold fish as the house pet more for my daughter's enjoyment, I would consider taking him back to the store, but my daughter has named him already...  So now I have that to deal with as well when we start getting rid of pets (Fish, etc).  We had to rehome 4 beautiful sweet cats that had lived with us for almost 12 years and been in my daughter's whole 8 years of life when the US Army sent us here to Korea...  Those were my babies and we miss them more than anything.

 
We really did do a ton of what I thought was good research before buying anything EXCEPT the tank...  (Yea goofed there), but there are so so so so many different opinions and refrences to this or that, people doing this and that, we sorta went the middle ground and had to draw conclusions and lean to the lesser of the evils when making the choices.  We're also working with what we can get here in S Korea.  I can't get mail like most people.  My mail comes via USPS on pallettes in the back of a C-130 if it has room.  IF it has room.  everything I get shipped is a gamble.  will it make it...  hopefully.  So shipping fish is a no go.  With a major language barrier we use our smart phones and google images to identify the fish...  and hope we're right!
 
We do have an in tank wand something I don't know whatever it is in the cube tank for the Goldfish.  it's plugged into the only 220V outlet in my house because I don't need the Airconditioner right now.
 
So here is what we have and what we CAN have, is there a way to make this work for 14 months?
 
14L Cube with top
28L Regular Aquarium with NO LID (Custom Acrylic Lid I drew in AutoCAD and sent to a fab place wants 100USD to laser cut and send me)  I can't justify spending that much more on shattered glass.
http/sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/737278_4975254106733_1974295537_o.jpg
50 Watt Digital heater
AquaClear 20
BeamsWork LED Light for the 28L Tank.
 
I am willing to put down the cash to do a 30 Gal (115L) tank and all the Hardware, but then it kills me to have 400 USD of crap sitting here I can't use for something, anything.  good grief.  it's all brand new...
 
So there it is.  that's everything we thought we did right, we failed, spent a ton of money, now what, there's got to be some way to recover this, otherwise I'm done.  This was supposed to be stress relief hobby from work because of what they're doing to me there...  Now I find this out..  So much for stress free....  ugghhh...

 

[eaglesaquarium]

So there it is.  that's everything we thought we did right, we failed, spent a ton of money, now what, there's got to be some way to recover this, otherwise I'm done.  This was supposed to be stress relief hobby from work because of what they're doing to me there...  Now I find this out..  So much for stress free....  ugghhh...

 
I understand your predicament.  My brother-in-law is in the Air Force and will be shipping out to the Middle East (not sure of location) very soon.
 
 
Dealing strictly with the fish:  A 28L tank is really IDEAL for a betta.  Adding a bit of driftwood with an attached java fern would be even better.  You could also add a bit of java moss to float at the top - bettas appreciate having a plant cover them.  They breathe air from time to time, so having no cover is fine, but a bit of plants over the top will give them a better sense of security.
 
As for the goldfish, a 4 gallon tank is just too small for them.  Shrimp would be great in that tank though.  Any shrimp - a planted shrimp or nano tank is fine for them.  You could even consider the betta to go in there, but it isn't as good as the 28L.  If you can swing a 30 Gallon tank, then it would be in EVERYONE's best interest to do so.  Your daughter will be gutted if the fish dies, I'm sure, and keeping the goldie in the 4 gallon tank is a recipe for disaster, especially given how much you have left behind.   If you have a 30 gallon tank, you could put the common pleco into that as well.  Its not ideal, but its a lot better than any other option you have currently, other than returning it.  If you could trade it in for another pleco, like a BN, that would be even better.  
 
The cories could be placed in the 30 gallon as well, with the goldfish.  The biggest concern is that the goldfish prefers far cooler temps than the other fish.  Goldfish have their entire lifecycle (metabolism) sped up in warmer water, and will eat more, poop more, and die sooner than if kept in a cooler environment.  Keeping the tank at the cooler end of the spectrum - like 72F - would be best to give each fish the best it could hope for.  3 cories is the absolute, absolute minimum for them to feel any kind of security.  6 is widely stated as the best small shoal number, and as with all shoalers, more is always best.  
 
 
Sorry for the stress involved, but pet ownership has its cost.  Once you have everything set-up properly, I think fishkeeping far beats any other pet for a variety of reasons.  The key is getting through that initial tough patch.  Yours is a bit tougher than most, but once you get through it, it is amazing.  

 

[the_lock_man]

 
How about this
 
If you're happy to spend the dosh, get the 30gal, and pop the goldy in it, since your little girl has become attached to it. As Eagles says, the plec and the goldy in that tank isn't ideal, but if your daughter isn't as attached to the Plec, then you could take that back to the shop. There must be some sort of local liaison officer in your area that is there to deal with interactions between you Americans and the locals, and therefore would be able to write in Korean for you - ask him/her to write you a note to the fish shop saying that you now know this fish will grow to big for your tank, you don't want to be cruel, so could she please accept the fish (and maybe the 2 cories) back.
 
Set up the 28l with a heater, buy a betta from the fish shop, so they're getting another sale, the 30gal has no heater so the goldy is in idea conditions?
 
Trust me, your daughter will LOVE a betta.
 
Oh, yeah and shrimp in the cube. If you get cherry shrimp, they easily breed, your daughter will be fascinated watching the shrimplets grow. My 5yo son spends half his day with his nose pressed up against my small tank with the community of cherry shrimp. EDIT: Just spotted you already have some shrimp - get some more cherries. You can easily see the females when they have eggs inside them (called "berried"), again something fascinating and educational for your daughter.

 

[fluttermoth]

^^
That's really great advice there 

 

[OregonCoast]

Okay.   Rewind a bit.  So I am going to sit down with my daughter and see if I can play a psycological trick on her today and talk her into UPGRADING her goldfish and maybe giving him some special powers to turn into another looking fish or something

  ...  Sorta,  anyway, I'll figure something out.  I can see that I need to perform some serious mind trickery here and get rid of him asap.
 
The Pleco would be easy to take back without any complications, but I just feel horrible, and I can't buy a 200 gallon tank for him, despite bringing him home...  (I failed a fish.  This shouldn't feel as depressing as it does.)
 
So that would leave me with
14L
28L
115L  (Yes I am buying one)
 
2 Corys
3 Ghost Srimp
1 Red Cherry Shrimp
 
I LOVE the Corys, they are fascinating to watch.  Heating a tank doesn't bother me and I will buy another heater for the 115L if need be.  We will put a betta in the 28L (Is there anything else we can put in there so he's not all by himself? Bottom dweller, shrimp, etc.)  Already have the water at 79 F with the 50W Digital Heater.
 
Could we just pull the Cory's out of the 28L put them in a 115L with 4 more of the same species and drop a beta in in the 28L with the a cherry and 3 ghost that are there?
 
So we would need to stock a 115L tank,  I'm done trying to make any decisions myself on this due to my obvious lack of knowledge, so what would you recommend for a very active colorful tank, starting with the 6 Corydoras?
 
I will stock the cube with shrimp.  I did NOT want to do any planted tanks because we're trying to ease into this, but I'll check out planting a nano tank for the shrimp in the cube.  the others I would like to stay away from planting right this second.   we do have fake plants and logs in the 28L right now, but they are super soft and very very betta friendly.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Corys would work WONDERFULLY in the 115L.    They will be quite active the lower section of the tank, and they REALLY shine on sand as substrate. Any sand will work well, including playsand, just be sure to rinse it thoroughly before adding it to the tank.
 
 
I would leave the shrimp in the smallest tank, they don't need lots of space.  Very small bioload and easier to find in a smaller tank.
 
 
The betta would love the 28L, add some plants and a bit of floating plants and you've got yourself a beautiful looking tank and a very happy betta - they are some beautiful fish.
 
 
For stocking the 115L, after adding to get up to 6 cories, you'd still have a bit of stocking space available.  The issue would be with the bacteria (cycling) the bioload needs to be increased slowly so that they can catch up to the amount.  
 
Eventually, I'd look into the following - these are very small fish, but for my money, many smaller fish are more interesting to watch in a tank most of the time than a few larger species:
 
These fish get to about 1inch or so:
Trigonostigma espei or hengeli... 
Celestial Pearl Danios (sometimes called Galaxy Rasbora)
Male Endlers (many color morphs to choose from) - only get the males, otherwise you'll be swimming in fry!
 
 
These are just a few of the options you'd have for a tropical set-up with the cories.
 
If it were my tank, I'd probably go for 6-9 of the T. espei and 6-9 of the CPDs.  That's going to take your biofilter a while to catch up, but when it does, you'll have a great deal of activity in the top-mid waters as well as the bottom levels.  
 
 
 
 
 
T. espei are commonly called Lambchop Rasboras, and should be easy to find in S. Korea (native to Thailand and Cambodia.)

 
T. hengeli

 
Celestial Pearl Danio

 
Male endlers

 

[OregonCoast]

We managed to get a decent picture of the pleco that we have. Can anyone help us identify what kind of pleco it is?
http/stevenrg.smugmug.com/Pets/Fish-Tank/i-x3nDnMB/0/L/IMG_4122-L.jpg

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I'm far from an expert in plecos, but if you post that pic in the PLECO forum, I'm sure someone will stop by with the answer.  Just call the thread "please help me ID this pleco" or similar and you'll get a response fairly soon.