Oranda Not Looking Happy Today

[wilchil64]

Hi,

My daughter's Oranda isn't looking very happy this morning. He's got his dorsal fin down and is staying near the back right hand bottom corner of the tank, beneath the filter. He came out to say hello to me, but not as quickly as he usually does - he's normally at the front of the tank, shouting for food straight away! He also seemed to be "waddling" more than usual, but that could be my imagination.

We've only had him since Sunday, so five days, he seemed fine last night and ate.

I'll check the water stats. now, I checked them Tuesday and did a 30% water change because the ammonia test wasn't quite clear, nor the nitrites, although it was only a hint of change, also nitrates were on 40.

They are currently in an Elite 60 litre tank (2 small goldfish of approx. 2 inches and 1 oranda). I know they need a bigger tank, but I am looking for a pond for the goldfish.

I don't have any meds in the house other than salt but can get hold of some tonight. Is there anything else I can be doing in the meantime? I don't have a quarantine tank, unless I put him in the 21 litre plastic tank - it's not set up at the moment, as I am getting rid of it, but I could fill it with tank water and use some filter media from the 60 litre tank - that has 2 filters running at the moment anyway, one filter with mature media from the old tank and then the new filter to build up the bacteria in it - they were only moved to the 60 litre tank on Saturday.

Sorry if this is a bit garbled. Any help appreciated.

Added: the tests came back with a slight tinge of green to the ammonia, maybe between 0 and 0.25, it doesn't look like there are nitrites present and the nitrates are coming back at 40, but could be close to 80.

I can't see any white marks on him. When I went up to get the water to test, he came straight to the front and had his fin up again, so it is possible he was having a nap before? (well, resting ...) I will keep an eye on him and do a water change now. Any tips of anything I can do to help him would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[bae1994]

i dont know what to say about the arona but about the pond its probably to cold at this time of year if your in uk to be putting fish outside however a have a reasonable sized hard pond and a small hard pond going in stamford lincs uk.

 

[wilchil64]

i dont know what to say about the arona but about the pond its probably to cold at this time of year if your in uk to be putting fish outside however a have a reasonable sized hard pond and a small hard pond going in stamford lincs uk.

Thanks, unfortunately I am in North Yorkshire, near York, bit far to drive with them. But thank you for the offer. I guess I will probably have to wait til the spring anyway, to be on the safe side, I hope they'll be Ok til then.

 

[Colin_T]

the best thing to do for a sick goldfish (or most other fish) is a water change. Do a partial (30-50%) water change and complete gravel clean each day for a week. Then see how the fish is.

If you have an ammonia or nitrite reading then reduce the feeding to once every few days and do daily water changes until the problem is gone.

 

[wilchil64]

the best thing to do for a sick goldfish (or most other fish) is a water change. Do a partial (30-50%) water change and complete gravel clean each day for a week. Then see how the fish is.

If you have an ammonia or nitrite reading then reduce the feeding to once every few days and do daily water changes until the problem is gone.

Thanks. I've done a water change today, will not feed them tonight and change the water again tomorrow. Tbh he seems fine now. Could it be that he was having a rest earlier and just took a while to wake up properly?

 

[Colin_T]

it is possible if you had just turned the lights on. But since you have ammonia and nitrite in the tank, I would say it is more likely to be a water quality issue that has stressed the fish.

 

[wilchil64]

it is possible if you had just turned the lights on. But since you have ammonia and nitrite in the tank, I would say it is more likely to be a water quality issue that has stressed the fish.

No, I hadn't turned the lights on,

I'll keep an eye on him and keep changing the water.

 

[pippoodle]

do you have somewhere you could stand a 60-100 litre water container it might be worth getting one so that you can seperate the fish up a bit until spring when you can trasfer them to a pond

the fish will still be happy in a filtered container

 

[wilchil64]

do you have somewhere you could stand a 60-100 litre water container it might be worth getting one so that you can seperate the fish up a bit until spring when you can trasfer them to a pond

the fish will still be happy in a filtered container

Do you think the problem is that the goldfish are making him unhappy or that the tank is too small? I have two filters running in there, which should cope with the 3 fish, I hope, but the oranda has only been in for 5 days so the bacteria haven't built up to cope with the additional fish yet, I guess.

I don't have another 60 - 100 litre water container, nor do I have space to put one anywhere.

 

[pippoodle]

they should be ok in there until the spring just keep up with frequent water changes
the tank is too small for 3 goldies but there's not much you can do until the spring when they can go in the pond


are you using test strips or liquid kit?
test your water again now and see what the results are - test the nitrates in your tap water
if your nitrates keep going to 40-80 them you might need to start doing twice weekly water changes

also cut feeding down to as much as they can eat in 2 mins every other day only this will help to stop ammonia building up again

maybe when you put the fish in a pond in the spring you could either move to tropical just add a heater or maybe if you dont want to go tropical some WC minnows , some amano shrimp and some apple snails (these can be converted over to a tropical tank in the future if you decide to go that way )
kids love the shrimps and snails

goldfish are extremy messy fish --- i had them for years before moving onto tropical and tropical are a lot easier

cheers Sarah (appologies for warble MS head)

 

[wilchil64]

they should be ok in there until the spring just keep up with frequent water changes
the tank is too small for 3 goldies but there's not much you can do until the spring when they can go in the pond


are you using test strips or liquid kit?
test your water again now and see what the results are - test the nitrates in your tap water
if your nitrates keep going to 40-80 them you might need to start doing twice weekly water changes

also cut feeding down to as much as they can eat in 2 mins every other day only this will help to stop ammonia building up again

maybe when you put the fish in a pond in the spring you could either move to tropical just add a heater or maybe if you dont want to go tropical some WC minnows , some amano shrimp and some apple snails (these can be converted over to a tropical tank in the future if you decide to go that way )
kids love the shrimps and snails

goldfish are extremy messy fish --- i had them for years before moving onto tropical and tropical are a lot easier

cheers Sarah (appologies for warble MS head)

I'm using API liquid kits, I'll wait til my daughter's asleep then sneak in and get more tank water to test again. The nitrates in the tap water are about 10, I tested them last week.

I haven't fed the goldfish tonight, we only feed small amounts anyway, as much as they can eat in a minute really. But we have been feeding them every night so will cut down to every other night.

My husband and I have 2 tropical tanks, my daughter specifically wanted the oranda, think we will keep him in the 60 litre and move the goldfish into a pond in the spring if we can find a kind soul to take them.

I know the tank is too small, but originally we were sold a 21 litre tank with 2 small goldfish by a large pet chain here in the UK. The goldfish were fine but after reading up it was obvious the tank was too small. Pity the staff aren't trained to sell tanks in the right size to people - but then I guess they wouldn't sell as many. We'd never had fish before at that point and just knew goldfish from our DD's friends, who have them in small bowls and small tanks, so when we asked how big the tank needed to be to keep 2 goldfish and they told us 21 litres would be fine, we foolishly presumed they knew what they were talking about - after all we'd only seen goldfish of about 1 - 2 inches in small tanks!

Anyway, we are now much wiser, thanks to this forum. We can't fit in a bigger tank than the 60 litre tank so will arrange for the goldfish to go to a pond in the spring and then I understand the Oranda will be ok in 60 litres.

Sorry to waffle, I'll keep an eye on the water and do water changes when necessary. Luckily the fish does seem fine at the moment and has done all day after my initial panic, so fingers crossed keeping the water as clear of nitrates etc as possible will help him.

Thanks for your help.

 

[pippoodle]

everything i have read says oranda need at least 100 litres minimum

i've got some links for you to have a look at although he could be ok in there it still might stunt he;s growth and he wouldn't get his full potential and live for his full life span he would most probably die within 5 years instead of living 15-25 years

please dont think i'm being weird or nasty giving you these answers , i kept goldfish for about 15 years and i had fancy goldfish in a 60 litre before i joined this forum and found out everything , it is upsetting to be told all of it but it's best to pass on info to fellow fishkeepers
mine were all rehomed to grandads pond and mine also belonged to the children (3 and 5) i just explained the facts to them and they were happy for the fish to go to the pond (especially cos they then picked a guppy each when the new tank was set up )

http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/cares...?caresheetID=74
http/www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=...11&aid=2218
http/www.myfishtank.net/freshwater-fish/...a-goldfish-red/

i hope all reads as nicely as its meant to - with my MS sometimes things just dont come out right i read them as being nice and others say that it reads nasty or shirty (hubby not here at the moment to read and check ok )


Thanks Sarah x

 

[wilchil64]

everything i have read says oranda need at least 100 litres minimum

i've got some links for you to have a look at although he could be ok in there it still might stunt he;s growth and he wouldn't get his full potential and live for his full life span he would most probably die within 5 years instead of living 15-25 years

please dont think i'm being weird or nasty giving you these answers , i kept goldfish for about 15 years and i had fancy goldfish in a 60 litre before i joined this forum and found out everything , it is upsetting to be told all of it but it's best to pass on info to fellow fishkeepers
mine were all rehomed to grandads pond and mine also belonged to the children (3 and 5) i just explained the facts to them and they were happy for the fish to go to the pond (especially cos they then picked a guppy each when the new tank was set up )

[URL="http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/cares...?caresheetID=74"]http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/cares...?caresheetID=74[/URL]
[URL="http/www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=...11&aid=2218"]http/www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=...11&aid=2218[/URL]
[URL="http/www.myfishtank.net/freshwater-fish/...a-goldfish-red/"]http/www.myfishtank.net/freshwater-fish/...a-goldfish-red/[/URL]

i hope all reads as nicely as its meant to - with my MS sometimes things just dont come out right i read them as being nice and others say that it reads nasty or shirty (hubby not here at the moment to read and check ok )


Thanks Sarah x

No, that's fine, didn't come over nasty or anything, no worries. Sorry to hear about your MS.

Thanks for the links, will have a read through. I know now that the tank isn't ideal but will have to do for now, as the time of year is wrong for rehoming and was giving wrong information at first, am trying to put it right but just don't have the money for a bigger tank right now - if anyone has a 100 litre going spare, please think of me! I'll try and find a pond for the spring.

Thanks again.

 

[black angel]

your nitrate levels are really high...skipped a lot of the posts so dont know if its been dealt with.

as your water is 10 you should be keeping the tank at this as well...you could be overfeeding so look at maybe cutting back and find sinking granules to feed as well as green squashed peas.

you know youre overcrowded so wont go in to that but keep testing the water and keep the parameters to 0,0 and 10 as much as possible.

 

[wilchil64]

your nitrate levels are really high...skipped a lot of the posts so dont know if its been dealt with.

as your water is 10 you should be keeping the tank at this as well...you could be overfeeding so look at maybe cutting back and find sinking granules to feed as well as green squashed peas.

you know youre overcrowded so wont go in to that but keep testing the water and keep the parameters to 0,0 and 10 as much as possible.

Thanks. I've done 30% water changes yesterday and today. The water tests today (before the 30% water change) showed a very slight tinge to the ammonia test, not much but not quite clear yellow, the nitrite test was fine and the nitrates at 20. I didn't feed the fish yesterday. The oranda looked fine today, no sign of sulking at the back and his fin was up.

I'm really worried because the gravel my daughter picked was loose at Jollyes and when we were cleaning it we found someone had tipped loose fish food in. We went ahead and used it anyway, as we had not other, I picked out all the pieces I could find but am now paranoid that there is fish food under the gravel, affecting the water. I hope, if there is, it will eventually dissolve and we'll get rid of it with the water changes?

I've also put a few more (real) plants in as I understand the plants will use the nitrates?