Opinions on angelfish for future tank?

[BeckyCats]

Hello! I am seeking opinions and experiences on keeping angelfish for a future tank. I have not decided on size of tank yet, as the type of fish I keep could alter the size of the tank or tanks. Possibly 2 because it is so hard to narrow down which of the many fascinating lovely fish to keep!

At any rate, I was thinking of having a species-only tank with angelfish. I have read different websites that alternately say they are peaceful or aggressive. I think aggressive must be the correct info though, since that is what I read on this forum from people's experiences. This is why I was thinking species only. But... Aren't they then just mean to each other? I see pictures of beautiful planted tanks with large numbers of angelfish. Is that just for the pictures? Or maybe do people keep them in large numbers while they are young but then rehome them once they get older and more aggressive? Or is it really true that in large numbers, the aggression diminishes?

Again, this isn't happening immediately, but I like to research ahead of time so I know what to plan for. I do not want to end up with unhappy fish because I either have too many or too few. Also, any opinions and experiences anyone would like to share regarding keeping angelfish, would be appreciated. ☺

 

[Pnb00004]

I can't speak from experience but I have heard they will do fine I'm groups of around 6 because they will pair off with one another and not be aggressive if their is sufficient room! I've just read that doing my own research.

 

[FroFro]

If you see multiple angelfish in a tank it's more often than not that they were raised together from a young age and have bonded. That or they are all female. Angels are part of the cichlid family and are considered to be on of the most docile types of cichlids to keep, for a cichlid. Males will fight with each other over territory or for the attention of a female. If you do decide on angels you will want a large tank and I'd suggest getting them young or a pair that has been raised together.

 

[BeckyCats]

I was thinking of a 75 gallon or larger. The pictures I see show at least half a dozen or so fish. I know the theory that more can be better than fewer because it supposedly diffuses the aggression, but I am sceptical.

How many could I keep in one tank without anyone getting harassed?

If this is a species that, despite all of the beautiful pictures that show them displayed in groups of 6-12, should not live together, then can they live with a pearl gouramis in, say, a 55 gallon or so? My doctor's office has an angelfish with a honey gourami and they seemed to leave each other alone.

 

[Steve H.]

You will see some minor aggression as territories are established, and the sub dominate learn their place.

The real aggression comes from pairing, and then spawning.
If a pair spawns in a community tank any fish that ventures near the eggs will be a hard target.
A 3'-4' tank with plenty of coverage for hiding would help.

In my experience my angels never bothered or chased other fish in a community tank. Only each other for swimming into another's turf.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

Both the tank size and the number of angelfish in the group are very important.

Angelfish are shoaling fish by nature; in their habitats they live in smallish groups--by which I mean not in the hundreds as tetras and cories do, but still groups. An hierarchy is established within the group. Males are the most territorial, and continual pushing and shoving to exert their independence will be normal. This works in very large tanks where there is sufficient space for the fish to "spread out" and no one fish is likely to be singled out. This is not going to happen in anything under a five or more likely six foot tank, and even then there may be individual fish that don't follow the norm.

I have many times witnessed this normal behaviour in the group of about 12 angelfish in a several hundred gallon display at the Vancouver Aquarium. The angelfish remain close, pushing and "challenging" continually, but no one is physically assaulted. Put this same group of fish in a 4-foot tank, and things would almost certainly be very different.

With that understood, a group of minimum five in a 4-foot tank can often work. The five or six angelfish absolutely must be acquired at the same time so they are in their shoal from the first; adding fish later rarely if ever works. Even so, there is still the chance that one or two fish will be more dominant and separation is necessary or the submissive fish will soon be severely stressed and die.

Spawning as others have mentioned is the next hurdle. In the 6-foot or larger tank, this will play out normally, but the smaller the space the more likely the spawning pair may regard the remainder as intruders, and being unable to drive them out of their space, it can end in disaster.

I have posted this video a while back, and more than once, to illustrate what I have written. This is a group of eleven (I think) wild Pterophylum scalare from the Rio Cuiuni. The tank is stated as being 200X65X65 cm (78X25X25 inches), which is 6.5 feet in length, and 211 US gallons (800 litres). If you read down the comments, you will come to the post by the owner who says that even the mild pushing and shoving shown in this video was sufficient for him to re-home these fish to even larger tanks. The point is though, that the pushing and shoving in the video is normal and expected within any shoal of healthy angelfish. You can see a good illustration at 38 seconds into the video, on the far right--a fish is driven to the left, and then another challenges the first aggressor. Real trouble might result when a pair forms. Anyway, this is the sort of "home" one should give this beautiful fish.

Someone mentioned angelfish and gourami...this is not recommended. Males of both are territorial, to varying degrees depending upon the species and individual fish. The anglefish and honey gourami in a tank in a doctor's office cannot be taken as illustrative of "peace." For one thing, the tank may be small and this stresses both fish, and for another the environment of the office with I would assume active people moving around and children waving their hands at the fish in the tank all exerts stress on the fish. Fish under such continual external stress do not always behave normally. Put the same fish in a proper environment, and behaviours might be very different indeed.

Byron.

 

[BeckyCats]

How many gallons is a 6 foot tank generally speaking? The video is lovely, although I plan on having a lot more plants in mine. My love of plants is why I am not considering an Oscar (I adore those grumpy faces), because I understand that they demolish vegetation.

But back to the angels, even 200+ gallons wasn't enough for the angels in the video above, if I read your comment correctly, Byron. Maybe I should consider a different fish. I want critters that will be happy and not stressed and fighting.

 

[FroFro]

How many gallons is a 6 foot tank generally speaking? The video is lovely, although I plan on having a lot more plants in mine. My love of plants is why I am not considering an Oscar (I adore those grumpy faces), because I understand that they demolish vegetation.

But back to the angels, even 200+ gallons wasn't enough for the angels in the video above, if I read your comment correctly, Byron. Maybe I should consider a different fish. I want critters that will be happy and not stressed and fighting.

There are like 12 angelfish, but four or five would be good for a 4-6 foot long tank. These are extremely beautiful fish with a lot of personality. Picking them out and raising them from young little awkward things is very rewarding. My angels are very docile and always swim gracefully through the tank and beside each other. There are plenty of other lovely fish out there, buy angel's are one of the best freshwater fish IMO.

 

[Byron]

How many gallons is a 6 foot tank generally speaking? The video is lovely, although I plan on having a lot more plants in mine. My love of plants is why I am not considering an Oscar (I adore those grumpy faces), because I understand that they demolish vegetation.

But back to the angels, even 200+ gallons wasn't enough for the angels in the video above, if I read your comment correctly, Byron. Maybe I should consider a different fish. I want critters that will be happy and not stressed and fighting.

The owner of that tank/video felt the space insufficient. I'm not sure I would, and my point was the normal nudging behaviour which in the video was frequent but did not lead to outright physical attack because of the tank space and the larger group. Over time, things may change; the real problem would arise when a pair spawned.

A six-foot tank would be around 200 gallons or more. The dimensions, roughly 6X2X2 feet are basic and I doubt one would see a 6-foot tank with less height/width normally. Some would of course be larger.

I frequently suggest five angels minimum, and in a 4-foot tank. You really cannot go lower on either, except a bonded pair for breeding. This would normally work, but again, the problem arises when spawning occurs, and then one has to be prepared to re-house either the pair or the other angelfish, and that can be a permanent issue as one spawning will not restore the initial harmony. In other words, it is long-term. Having all females of course would tend to be more relaxed, but with smaller fish this is happenchance, and anyway the males do add a touch of naturalness which is always a benefit with this hobby. Having fish behave as close to natural is very rewarding and interesting.

Byron.

 

[BeckyCats]

Having fish behave as close to natural is very rewarding and interesting.

Byron.

I so agree. That's why I feel it worth looking into way ahead of time to make sure that once I do get a tank set up, I'll be in a good position to give the fish a proper home.

I should probably start a new thread with my questions about other fish and just keep it all in that one thread. I'm also interested in discus, clown loaches, diamond tetras, crayfish, ....

 

[Byron]

I so agree. That's why I feel it worth looking into way ahead of time to make sure that once I do get a tank set up, I'll be in a good position to give the fish a proper home.

I should probably start a new thread with my questions about other fish and just keep it all in that one thread. I'm also interested in discus, clown loaches, diamond tetras, crayfish, ....

I will keep an eye open for that...

 

[AbbeysDad]

In my own experience, even sibling males raised together will spar as if to be tank boss. When pairs mate there can be some real posturing. I think 4 or 6 is the absolute max in a 4 foot tank, with a tall tank being a better choice. Also, in spite of some advice to the contrary,
I have had angels along with live bearers in community, even though wild angles prefer soft water on the acidic side and live bearers like hard water neutral to alkaline...however, many/most of the fish we have are tank raised and have adapted to a wide range of water parameters.
The downside to live bearers with angels is when the live bearers drop fry, the hunt is on....which can be a bit tough on any children.