Oops

[Cracken]

Hello all,

I am a self-confessed absolute noob with no redeeming features except maybe my ignited passion for tropical fishkeeping...

To be fair, I am not a fishowner. My son is. Well, it was his Christmas present after a lot of pleading so technically I am just the assistant fishowner, but if you ask my wife then she considers that I am the one who is well and truly hooked, line and sinker.

We purchased an all in one 40ltr tropical kit with filter, heater, tank, food, water treatment, net and gravel. I knew enough to treat the water first and run it for 24hrs but then went straight to fish in. From there on in it was all down hill initially, but I have since turned the corner I think. But the cronology demands a fair accounting of the follies first.

1. I put the fish in after 24hrs.

2. The local pet shop assured me I could mix guppies with a fighting fish.

3. I did not test the water levels or commence a cycle...

OK, the next bit might be self evident but is worth relating. Yes, the fighting fish did not like the little red male guppies very much. It was red too and they did not make for good tank mates. I lost one of my guppies to the fighting fish before removing it to a separate gaol tank and subsequently returning it to the pet store for an exhange.

My second mistake was to "clean" the filter after a few days. I did it the absolute worst way possible by running it directly under the tap and killing all the bacteria colony and introducing untreated water to the tank too. I lost a second guppy the next day and was probably fortunate not to lose more. THIS was the point where I decided the documentation and information provided by my local pet store was probably inadequate and discovered this excellent forum online. I've since read all the cycling and noob threads. Again, my sincere thanks!

OK, so now I am performing a fish in cycle. Unfortunately I do not yet have an API all in one freshwater test kit but have purchased one and it will arrive tomorrow. I have now had my tank for two weeks and am currently doing a 20% daily water change anyway to stay on top of the ammonia levels which are no doubt building up despite my inability to measure and record them. When the test kit arrives tomorrow I will log my daily readings and actions until I have a cycled tank.

My community at present consists of 6 Guppies (3 male and 3 female) as well as 2 Platies. Quite a big community for an uncycled tank but we'll bring them all through safely.

Welcome any suggestions on actions I could take that might help this process or anything else I should consider.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[notg2009]

Hey there first of all, I'm a learning noob like you and did exactly as you did in the beginning, so don't feel bad; we learn by experience. Also don't rely too much on lfs advice; they might actually give you wrong info (i'm not against people working at lfs, but I have received a lot of bad advice). You just need to find someone in the fish store that knows what he/she is talking about. Of course this forum is great and people here are very helpful...most of the time Always have some idea about your favorite fish and plants before going to the store. That's what I do now

In order to make the bio filter to develop faster and get through cycling quicker (since you have some fish in the tank) you can get some gravel or bottom media from a tank that you are absolutely sure is a cycled, stable, controlled, parasite free tank (of course no tank is parasite free; bacteria/fungi/viruses are present everywhere and will only proliferate uncontrollably if water conditions are in their favor and against the fish). You can hang the gravel in a net and leave it in the tank for some time.

I have also used API stressZyme+ and Tetra safe start (USA), in addition to the gravel from my old tank, but I cannot confirm that they did 100% what they are supposed to do for a new tank. Some believe these products are useless and some actually highly recommend them!!

As for the API test kit, I use half-doses for testing, and I have got the same results as using the 5mL volume directions. Some might say half-amount will not work, but it worked for me. Saves you some money! your choice!

If it were me, I would have returned the platies for now, since a large number of fish in a small tank can make ammonia/nitrites/nitrates to accumulate fast. Some suggest using hardy species like zebra danios for fish-in cycling, and some consider it cruel to the fish! again your choice (maybe 2 small hardy fish is better to start with).

Good luck on your new tank.

 

[drobbyb]

Hi Michael! Firstly, as you have no doubt discovered, you are not alone in this! Many many fishkeepers have gone through this "trial by water", and many have been discouraged greatly by their subsequent failure due to bad advice, but it seems that this in not your case. You have stumbled onto perhaps the best fish forum and resource center on the internet. We will help you get through this successfully.

A liquid based reagent test kit is paramount. I am glad to see that yours is arriving tomorrow. This is probably the biggest hurdle for most beginners! Many simply listen to their LFS, and fail time after time while lining the pockets of their LFS never realizing that they are going about it all wrong. This is not to say that all LFS are bad, however in my experience most are old school folks who refuse to change their ways despite new valid proven information, and most will actively defend their views. I can't fault them for wanting to stick with what they believe works for them. Having said that, you can still wash your clothes with an old fashioned washboard and lye soap, but it is much easier to toss your clothes into a washing machine and press a button. Progress isn't always a bad thing.

I'm not going to lie to you, maintaining a fish tank is a bit of work and takes dedication. I've found that the best way for me is to make tank maintenance part of my regular schedule. I actively set aside time each week just for my tank. What this does is gives me adequate time to ensure that I have practiced good technique when testing my water and performing water changes with gravel vacuums as well as filter maintenance and cleaning without feeling rushed or making it a chore. I actually enjoy maintaining my tanks as it is part of my life, and I make it a point of pride. When people come over and look at my tank, they always say that it is so clean and my water is so clear and often times they ask how I do it. It's simple, I make time for it.

I am sure others will chime in and give you more advice and encouragement. Just remember that when advice is offered, people will tell you what works for them. You must find what works for you. Learn from others mistakes and triumphs.

 

[guppy love]

Hi and welcome to the world of fish!

It sounds like you are taking all the right steps now and hopefully you will have a nice cycled tank soon. The only advice I can add is to do a bit more than a 20% water change daily - 30-50% may be better, and feed very sparingly - every other day until cycling is complete.

If you know anyone with an established tank see if you can get a small piece of filter media from them to kick start the bacterial colony, or perhaps a friendly lfs will let you have a bit. Gravel is not a great source of good bacteria unless an undergravel filter is in use.

Good luck!

 

[Aqua Tom]

seeing as it is only a 40 litre (10 uk gallon) tank. I would up the daily water 50% until you get your API kit.

 

[Cracken]

Thanks Guys (gender non-specific Aussie colloquial term ),

I will increase my water swap out to 50% daily until I can start testing. I don't even have any PH +/- solution either so will not be able to adjust that even if it is out of range. On top of all this I have also noticed a couple of tiny specs of white spot on one or two guppies so will have to deal with that in due course.

Hopefully my API kit turns up today so I can post a full suite of water diagnostic results tomorrow for some much appreciated experienced insight. I hope I don't get home to one of those nasty cardboard cards in the letterbox saying I have to pick it up from my local post office exchange...

My fish all seem quite happy at present. They do get very excited when I do the water change out. They often swim below the water that I am pouring back into the tank which suggests they might appreciate it. Before I was doing swap outs they were quite stressed, hovering at the top of the tank and gasping for air. Thankfully that is now a thing of the past and they all seem quite content in the tank at present and quite active.

Looking forward to a more scientific approach to my first cycle henceforth.

Thanks again,
Michael

 

[drobbyb]

Michael,

I would have to caution you on the use of pH up or down. These chemicals will change your pH for a time, but all too often your pH will return to it's original value. This is because these chemicals do nothing to buffer/debuffer your water, and this rapid change in pH is not good for your fish. It is more important to have stable pH values (really, it's hardness. pH is a reflection of your hardness) than to have ideal ones. It's best not to change from your native pH.

 

[moochy13]

turn the temp up to 30ish in your tank, will help with the whitespot. higher temp speeds up their lifecycle, removing them from the fish. whitespot treatment will only kill them off when in the waterborn stage

 

[Cracken]

turn the temp up to 30ish in your tank, will help with the whitespot. higher temp speeds up their lifecycle, removing them from the fish. whitespot treatment will only kill them off when in the waterborn stage

Many thanks!

Will do that then. I've currently got the temperature set to 25 so I'll turn it up when I get home. Given its a 5 degree increase, should I stage this over a couple of days so as not to shock the fish too much? I'm not sure how quickly the little heater would increase the temperature that much if I just set it straight to 30.

Thanks,
Michael

I would have to caution you on the use of pH up or down. It's best not to change from your native pH.

Robby, thanks. I tested it with some PH strips my wife bought and it was around 7.5. I won't mess with it then, I'll just log it with all the other readings and see how it tracks.

My primary concern at this stage is the ammonia levels which is why I'm doing daily water part change outs. I'll increase these to 50% and start logging.

Thanks for your assistance,
Michael

 

[moochy13]

considering the size of the tank, it might be worth taking a day or 2 to get it up a bit, to be honest any increase should help, but i recently had whitespot, was told to turn the temp up and treat with meds and it was gone in 5 days. my tank is 4x the size of yours though, so i guess because of my water mass i could put it straight up to 30 as it would have taken longer to heat it to that level.

 

[Cracken]

I went home and checked and all the white spot seems to have cleared up on the fish anyway. I'll keep a close eye on it and see what happens but won't need to treat it at present.

Unfortunately, one of my male guppies is not happy. Its swimming around a bit tail down and no visible dorsal fin. I'm nor sure if it had a run in with the fighting fish before I pulled it out but its definately not happy. I fed them this morning and the others had a voracious appetite and were flying around the tank to get at the food. This little guy looked as if he wasn't even aware the food was in the tank and just kept circling tail down. I've isolated it into a hospital tank but I'm not too optimistic. Any ideas?

Also, my API test kit didn't turn up yesterday as I got one of the cardboard letters telling me it was at the post office to collect. So I went and picked it up this morning and will be able to test the tank tonight. I did a 50% water swap out last night and it seemed to go OK. The water is a touch murkey at present but nothing to worry about I think.

I also bought a flourescant 9w lamp and reflector for this small tank which I'll install tonight.

Looking forward to having a stable cycled tank. Not too happy about losing fish too often.

PS This is a very addictive hobby. If I manage to cycle this tank and get it stable then I think in time I will definately be getting a bigger tank with a lot more fish.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[BigbruiserAl]

Good luck with your tank mate, i can only eco not to use anything to adjust your PH i just tryed it and wiped out my whole tank on my 4th 90% water change and finally getting stable again.

A quick highjack of your thread if you dont mind (might help you though) When using the api test kit do you hold the tube right up to the card as to touch it so the tube is ON the card or just hold the tube near the card.
The reason i ask is for example holding the tube againt the card(allowing no light through the tube) gives a darker result ph 6.9, holding the tube near the card allowing light through the tube now reads 6.4 as an example?

 

[Cracken]

Hi Al,

I held the tubes just away from the card when testing it tonight for the first time. I'd appreciate any guidance from the experienced members here around these results and what I should be doing differently if anything.

OK, tested the lot before any change out:

Thursday 20/1/2011

Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0.5ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
pH 7.2

Happy with the ammonia and pH levels but the Nitrite in particular is up a bit. I changed out 50% and retested Nitrite and Nitrate:

Nitrite 0ppm (surprised me a bit but maybe borderline a touch more)
Nitrate 5ppm (no change, surprised me even more until I read water contains nitrate anyway)

I think the Nitrate levels aren't toxic and I was happy with the reduced Nitrite after the change out. So, to the experts, should I persist with daily readings and 50% change outs for the time being until the tank is cycled?

Thanks,
Michael

PS Lost that other guppy in the hospital tank. After careful inspection he had bits missing, a big chunk out of his tail and most of his dorsal fin. He may be the final victim of my fighting fish debacle, all three male guppies. The new inhabitants all seem to be happy enough... Also added an 8w lamp and reflector too which look great. I'll run it for a few hours a day for the sake of the plants.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

0.25ppm ammonia is something to worry about, to the extent that a ~75% water change is necessary (so those readings are diluted three-fold to ~0.008, but equally this could rapidly rise again to toxic levels if there is rotting food on the tank floor or inside the filter).

If you have not been doing so already, using a gravel/sand cleaner to vacuum any waste on the tank floor would help during the water removal, as would very gently rinsing the filter sponges in the bucket of removed water.

I'd highly recommend you purchase a bottle of "Seachem Prime" dechlorinator, as this product is very concentrated (a standard 5ml dose treats 200l) so this bottle will last you ages for your tank. In addition, you can up the dose to 5x normal to neutralise ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Something else I'd highly recommend is a bunch of fast growing floating plant, such as Amazon Frogbit or Red Root Floater (a post in the planted section would give you many other options to have knowledge of when visiting a store to buy something, not to mention giving you a heads up to the many non-aquatic plants often sold at such places that will rot within weeks). These floating plants are great for absorbing ammonia and the much less toxic nitrate, without the demands of high intensity lighting; fertilizers; carbon dioxide.

 

[Cracken]

Thanks Goat,

I'll dive over to the planted section and start my research. I've added another plant which I'd taken out as it was starting to rot a bit, but with the fluoro light in place now should be OK. I'll keep an eye on it though.

I'll also gently clean the filter in the swapped out water tonight and vacuum the gravel bed with the draining cleaner tube as I go. I hadn't been doing this as I was trying to allow my bacteria colony to form in the gravel and didn't want to disturb it.

Cheers,
Michael