Old Oscar Acting Strange Again...what's Going On?

[xenomorph]

Here's some background, please read...:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=141009&hl=

We took the oscar out of the sick tank and put him back in the 180 on Sunday afternoon. By then, he had been in the tank for a week, one full round of medication (Maracyn I and II) and lots of water changes completed.

He seemed normal and active in the 20g and INITALLY when we put him back in the 180, he seemed fine, just a little confused about where he was (but before long he was back in his corner, doing the 'cichlid shake' and moving gravel around).

However...by the next day (Monday) he was back to tilting to the side. He is also sleeping a lot, and often very deeply...last night before I went to bed, I turned off all the fish tank lights and left the living room lights on dim while I checked my email one last time. When I came back out I saw the oscar laying flat on his side in his corner. Normally when I walk by he will stir or move a fin but he didn't this time and I thought the worst. I turned up the lights and watched him and finally he twitched a fin then after a while stirred and woke up and swam around for a moment before going back into the corner to sleep again.

What's going on with the old guy?? His coloration looks normal...he behaves normally other than all the sleeping and the tilting. Is he just getting old, or what?

 

[WILDER]

Look under laying over.
http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment2.htm#laying

Sounds like to me he has parasites with a bacterial infection on top.

You won't be able to get this med, but sleeping sickness is caused by parasites.

http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/octozin.htm

Trynoplasma
Sleeping sickness infects the blood just as it does in humans. Infected fish are drowsy, may swim strangely and become thin. It is usually seen in pond fish that have been recently moved into an aquarium. I think it is brought on by warming up the fish too quickly. There is no cure.

 

[xenomorph]

Look under laying over.
http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment2.htm#laying

Sounds like to me he has parasites with a bacterial infection on top.

You won't be able to get this med, but sleeping sickness is caused by parasites.

http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/octozin.htm

Trynoplasma
Sleeping sickness infects the blood just as it does in humans. Infected fish are drowsy, may swim strangely and become thin. It is usually seen in pond fish that have been recently moved into an aquarium. I think it is brought on by warming up the fish too quickly. There is no cure.

How could he have parasites with a bacterial infection on top? We have not introduced any new fish in a long time...we moved in September and the fish have been together in the big tank since then. I'm puzzled about how he could have gotten this...if it is indeed the problem.

Before he started behaving strangely, we did have a problem with the heater raising the temp too high but as far as I know, this happened gradually. The temp was at 85 for a few days, which is a bit high but not untolerable and the other fish were fine.

What are some external signs of parasites? His gills seem ok....

 

[WILDER]

It that last post is mentions the temp for sleeping sickness, plus fish have parasites but they are controlled if there are only a few, it only takes them to get stressed for a break out.

But if the fish did have parasites i would of expected the other fish to be showing signs.

 

[tttnjfttt]

This is going to sound wierd, but what are all your water stats and tank maintence routine? One thing that seems to be sticking out to me, and i have no clue what it may or may not mean, is the fact that the oscar seems to be having trouble in this tank. He started out wierd in the 180, then improved in the hospital, then went back to the other symptoms in the 180.

 

[WILDER]

plus any pitting on the head of the fish.

 

[WILDER]

Sunken in belly, plus in the pic on his head can see a pencil dint in his head.
Look under hole in the head.
http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm

http/www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.html
http/www.nationalfishpharm.com/articles/hexamita.html

 

[WILDER]

Racked my brain over this one and sad to say can't pin point it, could just be old age too, sorry.

 

[xenomorph]

When I get home I will test the water and post accurate water stats (I'm at work now).

The oscar has no symptoms of HITH...he has a couple "dents" on his head but they've been there his entire life...since he's deformed I guess he was just born with the dents. I have always been careful about preventing HITH so I'm not concerned about that.

The other fish in the tank do seem fine...parasites would affect everyone, right?

The oscar does seem to be slightly convex (a lump) on one side and convex (caved in) on the other side but you can only see this if you look very carefully...the convex side is the side that is facing the gravel (downwards) when he's tilted to the side. But...looking at old pictures, it seems like his body has always had this trait, but it does seem exaggerated now with the way he's behaving.

More information to come in an hour or so....

 

[WILDER]

How old is he?.
Once fish start to lay on there sides they are dying.
Usually when they lay to there sides on the bottom it can be a bacterial infection.
Sad to say with him laying to oneside and falling a sleep alot he's dying, sorry which i could of been more help.
All you can do is make him as comfortable as possible.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Since there are other fish in the tank not showing signs, i would guess it is not a water quality issue. Maybe it is is a stubborn bacterial infection that needs more time for the antibiotics to work? Since he seemed to be getting better then got worse. Maybe a different antibiotic? My personal favorite is kanamyacin (kanacyn, k-myacin) and have had alot of luck with that.

I do agree with wilder, if it is laying on its side, it is not looking too good.

 

[xenomorph]

He's about 6.5 years old.

I don't think he's dying...I'm not sure. He was swimming around and said hello to me when I got home...then he started to beg for food so I gave him a couple pellets and he ate them fine. Then he proceeded to bully his cichlid tankmate (a young male Texas cichlid) for a few seconds.

So as you can see his behavior is kind of baffling....he reminds me of an old man that feels young at heart--does the same things he's done all his life but he needs to rest a lot more. But I know fish aren't like that...right? I have a 15 year old pleco and she doesn't behave any differently now than when she was one year old but then again, plecos are plecos

Here are the test kit results, sorry to say my test kit does not have a GH or KH solution but that's alright.

pH: 6.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 50 ppm

Since there are other fish in the tank not showing signs, i would guess it is not a water quality issue. Maybe it is is a stubborn bacterial infection that needs more time for the antibiotics to work? Since he seemed to be getting better then got worse. Maybe a different antibiotic? My personal favorite is kanamyacin (kanacyn, k-myacin) and have had alot of luck with that.

I do agree with wilder, if it is laying on its side, it is not looking too good.

Where can I find kanamyacin online? The chain stores don't sell that, I know that much...and doubtful the LFS's have a huge variety too.

 

[tttnjfttt]

I found mine at a LFS. Here is a link that I just found, i have never ordered anything from here online. Scroll about 2/3 of the way down. http/foryourfish.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/FYF-M-ABM.htm

 

[WILDER]

Yes but a sunken in belly is not normal as it wasting away desease, internal parasites.

 

[tttnjfttt]

From what i read, i didn't take it to mean that he had a sunken belly. I took it that he had a lump on one side of his head, and opposite that was the indentation. Internal parasites usually mean that it is becoming like a swimming skeleton.

Here is another link for kanacyn http/froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?...gle&scoring=mrd