Old Lady Needs Help

[Sharknado99]

HI guys
 
This enquiry is actually for my neighbour friend who is quite elderly. Her grandkids have gone overseas and left her a tank of fishies. I am not experienced enough to help so thought I would ask here.
 
Here are the details
 
Tank size: 80 Litres
pH: 7.4
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 1.5ppm (purple)
nitrate: have not tested
tank temp: 27C
Tank established for - several years
Tank inhabitants: 2 electric blue rams and 2 gouramis
As you can tell, the NITRITE is wayyy tooo high. I'm not sure what happened during the transfer. I haven't tested for NITRATE because the NITRITE is so high. That was my main concern. I really need to know how to bring this down as fast as possible. The fish are at the top gasping for air but sometimes they are at the bottom.
 
Other information that you might like to know:
 
there are lots of plants.
the lady has not washed anything in tap water
apparently, the grandkids half emptied the water, brought it to her place, then filled it up with water again (with the conditioner etc). They might have taken out more than half the water.
 
What I have done so far:
 
I have done a 25% water change
added some of the seachem PRIME to neutralise the nitrite
added some Seachem Stability to add more bacteria
reduced the PH to about 7- 7.2
not fed the fish for about a day so that theres no more ammonia going in.
 
It seemed to work for a little bit but the nitrite of course is back at record levels.
 
HELP!!
 
Sorry its such a long post!
 
 
 
 
 

 

[WILDER]

Immediate water change and increase aeration.
Do you know the ph of the tank before the water was changed.
 
Can you test the nitrate please. 

 

[sawickib]

I'd do as large of a water chaage as possible, and your fish may not be able to survive the nitrite levels, it stays in their blood longer, but I hope they come through.

 

[sawickib]

I would try not to stress the fish out further by lowering the pH unless it wasn't intentional,

 

[Sharknado99]

Thanks guys. I'll add an air stone for the aeration. Will that be okay?
As for the PH? I heard that nitrite and ammonia were both more toxic at higher Ph levels.
Is that true?
 
Is it bad for them to keep adding seachem prime. I guess it must be better than all that nitrite.

 

[sawickib]

Well I don't think you want to over dose tho prime, and I'm not actually sure if it's more toxic at higher levels, but I know if the fish are fighting to breath fluctuating pH doesn't help them and can cause more stress. I would up the filter intake if it's an aqua clear and put in a airstone,

 

[Sharknado99]

OK will do. 
I feel so sorry for the fish and the old lady lol. I really hope they survive. THey're such pretty little fish.

 

[sawickib]

Me to good luck!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

A better solution is to leave the water alone and add salt to the water. The sooner the nitrite bacs multiply to handle more nitrite, the sooner you will be out of the woods. Since neither changing water nor adding salt will remove nitrite already inside the fish (only time will do this), preventing further nitrite from entering the fish is the goal. I am going to copy and paste instructions from and article for you on what to do. Btw the Stability won't help nor will overdosing Prime despite what SeaChem claims.
 
“Nitrite enters the bloodstream through the gills and turns the blood to a chocolate-brown color. Hemoglobin, which transports oxygen in the blood, combines with nitrite to form methemoglobin, which is incapable of oxygen transport. Brown blood cannot carry sufficient amounts of oxygen, and affected fish can suffocate despite adequate oxygen concentration in the water. This accounts for the gasping behavior often observed in fish with brown blood disease, even when oxygen levels are relatively high.”1
 
Fortunately, there is an effective way to blunt the harmful effects of elevated nitrite that doesn’t involve changing lots of water- you add salt (sodium chloride) to the water. The chloride in the salt acts to” block” the ability of nitrite to enter though the gills of the fish and thus to cause the harm inside the fish it might. So it is possible to manage elevated nitrite over the short term using salt in relatively small amounts.
 
“Sodium chloride (common salt, NaCl) is used to “treat” brown blood disease. Calcium chloride can also be used but is typically more expensive. The chloride portion of salt competes with nitrite for absorption through the gills. Maintaining at least a 10 to 1 ratio of chloride to nitrite in a pond effectively prevents nitrite from entering catfish.”2
 
Plain old table salt is just fine for use here. Do not worry if it says Iodized or if it says it contains Anti-caking agents. The amount of either of these in the salt is so minimal one would pickle their fish long before these ingredients would be doing any harm.
 
[SIZE=13pt]Calculating How Much Salt to Add[/SIZE]
 
PPM is a measure of concentration in water. You cannot weigh ppms. However, 1 mg/l is almost the exact equivalent in water to 1 ppm. So one can use ppm and mg/l interchangeably in this case. You can weigh milligrams.
 
To add 10 mg/l of chloride for every ppm of nitrite in the water, use the following steps:
 
1. Multiply your nitrite test reading by 10. This will give you the needed mg/l of chloride you need to add.
 
2. Calculate the actual volume in liters of the water in your tank. If your volume is in gallons you must convert this into liters. (As a rule, using the advertised volume of the tank at about 85% will put you in the right ballpark.)  1 gallon = 3.875 liters
 
3. Multiply the number in #1 above by the number of liters of water in #2 above to get the total number of mg of chloride you will need to add.
 
4. Because salt is roughly 2/3 chloride, you must multiply the number calculated in #3 by 1.5.  You now know how many mg of salt you should add to the water. Dividing this number by 1,000 will convert this amount to grams which are easier to weigh for most people.
 
5. Do not add the dry salt directly to the tank. Remove some tank water to a container and mix the salt in that, then add the salt water to the tank spreading it around the surface.
 
[SIZE=12pt]Hint[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]:[/SIZE] We have calculated a handy conversion from grams to volume so one can measure in tea or table spoons which most folks are likely to have while a gram scale is not. The following calculations were made using an Ohaus triple beam scale: ¼ teaspoon of salt shaker sized table salt weighs 2 grams.
 
 
If you have 5 ppm on an API the amount of nitrite could be higher and diluted testing might be needed. If so I can post for you how to do that.
 
1
[SIZE=12pt]Nitrite in Fish Ponds[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]June 1997[/SIZE]
Robert M. Durborow[SIZE=8pt]1[/SIZE], David M. Crosby[SIZE=8pt]2 [/SIZE]and Martin W. Brunson[SIZE=8pt]3[/SIZE]
https/srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/110/
 
2[SIZE=12pt]The Merck Veterinary Manual for Veterinary Professionals[/SIZE]
http/www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/fish/environmental_diseases_of_fish.html

 

[Sharknado99]

Wow i never knew that. 
 
Thanks for this. Im going to try it immediately.

 

[WILDER]

I agree that salt will help.
How are the fish?

 

[Sharknado99]

So I added the salt as per instructions above.
I added an airstone
I added a little bit of gravel from my established tank
 
The fish have now stopped gasping at the top. They are swimming around normally.
The tank is looking a bit cloudy, but at least the fist survived another night...
 
I did a nitrite test this morning and it was the light blue ie 0ppm. It was slowly reducing from yesterday and overnight it has gone down to zero.
But i know that things can change esp in such a small tank so I'll continue to monitor a few times a day.
I am going to test for ammonia and nitrate soon and will post that soon.
 
Thank you so much for your help. I know its probably still too early to be out of trouble now so will keep monitoring. 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The airstone porbably was not needed as it cannot help with nitrite poisoning.
 
The use of Prime affects test results, the overdosing or using to combat the nitrogen complex can also affect results and cycling.
Therefore, do not assume any of your readings are correct when doing so.
 
Your fish already old you they are improving by their change in behavior for the better. Bear in mind that salt does not evaporate. the only way to remove it from the tank is via water changes. Once you are certain things have stabilized properly, a big water change is the first thing to do.
 
I am not a fan of nitrate testing. The kits are not accurate, how you shake the bottles and tubes affects results. In the end a properly set up and maintained tank getting water changes should not have nitrate problems unless your tap water comes in with them. Ammonia and nitrite readings usually are sufficient unless there is good cause to check nitrates.

 

[Sharknado99]

Ok understood.
 
I have never been able to get good nitrate results either.
 
I'll keep monitoring and once things have stabilized properly i'll do a big water  change.  Will keep you posted.

 

[WILDER]

How are the fish?