Ok, if I don’t want to throw away the aquarium, and equipment exposed to bacteria like fish TB

[Magnum Man]

So I have been researching a little… a major bleach manufacturer, has a chart for sterilization, and my best extrapolation of that is, I will need a gallon and a quart of pure bleach, with an exposure time of 6 minutes, to sterilize a 55 gallon aquarium, hard scape, and filters…

If that would sterilize a fish TB exposed tank and equipment, I think that’s something I think I could do…. Next question, is how much time and water change would be required to make a refill safe for fish again??? I don’t have chlorinated water, but assume adding a dechlorinator would be a good idea, before adding fish again, as a precaution…

And I understand that would kill all the beneficial bacteria, so there would be none in the tank or filter components… so it would be like starting a new aquarium…

I’m unsure how filter sponges would react to that concentration, but would likely run the filters, for circulation without any contents, and start with new there???

Thoughts???

 

[Magnum Man]

So, I would be using different substrate in setting this tank up again, so I would likely remove what is in it… but that is a coarser pea rock type material, so I’m sure it would likely sanitize better than a sand, if I tried to do the substrate… I have several pieces of ornamental lava stone, that won’t be going back into this tank, but I’d like to have those aquarium safe for later use if desired, but being porous, they could be more challenging…

The 6 minutes off the chart, could be extended, to a day or two if needed

 

[GaryE]

The sponges would be destroyed.

I'll be a devil's advocate. If I buy a popular, mass produced fish in a pet shop - any livebearer, rainbow, barb, etc that is a mainstay, bread and butter fish, I assume it is carrying tb. Whether that tb will be contained by the fishes' immune system, or blossom into a disaster is step one for quarantine. Outside of a few rainbows, I have never had it pull an outbreak in the first few weeks. Then, it's a question of how long it will chop off the life of the fish. A fish that could live 12 or more years, like a rainbow, might live to 3.

I consider it unavoidable.

So I can make Herculean effort to remove everything and bleach it. Then the fish that goes into the spotless tank brings the disease back. It has been a long time since I encountered someone who gets as many new fish as you do, and I love seeing what catches your eye. But if I were a betting man, I'd say some of your other fish have it. The Bichir, eating feeder fish, would be a prime candidate. But any fish can be a carrier, and the disease is an epidemic in the hobby, just as it was in the Victorian era for people. We can fight it with antibiotics, but a complex cocktail of antibiotics for 6 months in a fishtank?

It's here to stay.

In its open sore stage, it can transfer to humans as a skin surface infection. We have to be run down with open cuts of our own. If you're immune compromised, suffering from a serious chronic condition, have cancer or are an alcoholic or druggie, you may have an issue. It is a pain in the butt to cure. But transfer is so rare that my dermatologist, a teaching professor at a major medical school, had never seen a live case. It's many many times more dangerous to have a pet cat, and cats aren't a danger to us.

So it's your call. Changing out gravel is cheap. But the odds it'll be back as soon as you put fish in are reasonably good (or bad...).

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been pretty lucky in terms of diseases and parasites in my tanks from day one. I have only seen Ich twice in 24 years and 20-30 tanks running at any one time. However, one of the things I have done is to buy used tanks on occasion. And those I needed both to clean up and also to make safe in terms of any nasties. So I developed a method for how I treated a new used tank.

I set it up in our carport (a garage with few or no walls). I had access to a hose for water and I have pumps to be able to empty tanks. There is also an electrical out let there. Here is my routine.

Clearing out calcium type deposits was step one. I filled the tank with water and added muriatic acid to the tank. This did two things. It removed all but the most stubborn deposits from the glass. But it had another benefit. Adding the acid dropped the pH a lot. Many bacteria cannot survive in acid water. So I may have also been killing some things. After I empty the tank, I deal with the stubborn spots using undiluted Muriaic acid and a Q-tip and then a single edged razor blade to remove those spots.

My next step was the bleach. It has gotten harder to get plain old bleach these days. They are scented or anti-splash. two things I did not want. Many are also "concentrated" which is OK by me. So, I mostly have tp buy the store brand and only the concentrated one and not anything else. Is is cheaper than the name brands. Unfortunately, Covid caused the price of bleach to rise a bunch. I refill the tank with new water and then I add a lot of bleach. Too much is better than too little.

For both the acid and the bleach treatments I let the tank sit for about 15-30 minutes. After I empty the tank from the treatment, I rinse it with clean water while running a pump to empty.at the same time. This lets me rinse the glass well.

The nice thing about using bleach is chlorine evaporates. So, after completing the bleach treatment and rinsing for it, I let the tank dry out completely. Once it has been dry for a while, it is ready to be put into use.

One last observation re cleaning a tank where I am not worried about nasties but do need to clean it up. I had my clowns and redline barbs in a 75 gal. I knew I needed to upgrade them to a 6 ft. tank. I discovered a [erson who was a major Cichlid breeder who was exiting the hobby after back surgery. From him I bout a 150, a 125. a 33L and a 20L all with lids and some with filtration. I built stands for the 6 foot tanks and they sat on the stands for some time without my putting them into use.

One Sunday morning I woke to the in-wall 75 leaking slowly from the from front right corner. I needed to get the 150 cleaned and then move all the contents of the 75 + more to it. I ran to the store and got a big container of OxyClean. I filled the tank, dumped in a ton of the Oxy and put in pumps to circulate the water. After it ran for about 45 minutes, I emptied the tank down to about an inch and began the rinsing process. A bug pump was removing water even as new water come in. At the same time I directed the new water to rinse the sides of the tank.

When I was sure I have over rinsed the tank I began the process of filling it and moving in substrate and all the stuff from the 75. I added an AC 110 and a H.O.T. magnum and moved over the Eheim canister from the 75. I used the media from the AC 70 on the 75 to the 110 and once I had it all running and up to temp, I moved all the fish in. I began the process at about 10 a.m. in the morning and I finished it at about 3:30 a.m. the next morning. I never lost a single fish.

I should state that I did not care to try and figure out how much acid or bleach or Oxy I should add when clewaning new tanks, I just assumed it was safer to add too much than too little. I decided letting things sit with any of the agents I added for longer than I imagined was need. Again, too long beats to short in terms of time. I also felt that the strength of my solutions and the time of exposure was not enough to degrade the silicone seals. The 150 I think was at least 25 years old when I got it used. I have had it running now for at least a decade and it still holds water fine. Some of the silicone that gets onto the glass along the seams has peeled off in placed, But the seals themselves have never let go in any way. The same is true for the 125 which was in better shape than the 150.

Magnum, you have to do things in a way that satisfies you that your tank will be safe to use again when you are done. My feeling is that chlorine can kill just about any living thing when the dose and exposure time is enough or more than enough. I had to buy a lot of gallons of bleach. I figure that 150 actually holds about 135 gallons. To make the bleach I added just 5% of that meant I needed about 7 gallons of bleach. But normally I used even more to be sure it is enough.

When I have to bleach a hospital or Q tank when done with it I also bleach the filters and other things that were in the tank. Depending on the media in the filter I may bleach and reuse it or I may throw it out and replace it. So when I bleach the tank the equipment to be reused is in the the tank when I bleach it. I do not care in such cases that I am killing the good bacteria. With all the tanks I have and with the bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only I keep in my fridge, I can almost instantly cycle any new tank I gets up. However, when I am not in a hurry, I will dose some ammonia and test to be sure.

Here is what Dr. Tanner of Swiss tropicals has to say about bleaching Poret foam:

Q: how do you disinfect/sterilize Poret® foam?

A: The best solution for disinfection of a fish tank and equipment is still 10% plain chlorine bleach (mix 1 part bleach plus 9 parts water). However, bleach will discolor and destroy the crosslinking in the Poret® foam, so any exposure longer than 10 min (soaking) is not recommended. What works well for disinfection of Poret® foam is simply letting it dry completely (cheap too!). While that does not kill absolutely everything, most fish pathogens will not survive drying. If drying is not an option, use pool acid (sold as muriatic acid this is 20-30% HCl; hydrochloric acid). Dilute the acid with water to about 5%. Add the acid to the water, NOT the other way around, otherwise it can blow up into your face. So mix 1 part acid into ~5 parts water. You can leave the foam in there for hours. It will also destroy algae and most microorganisms. Note that all these disinfection methods do not distinguish good from bad but simply kill microorganisms and algae non-selectively.

 

[Colin_T]

Gravel and rocks can be cooked in the oven at 100C for 30 minutes to kill anything on them. You can also boil them.

Plastic items can be bleached for a few hours to a day if you like and will be fine. Just rinse well after bleaching.

Plastic type sponges are usually fine but polyurethane foam rubber sponges melt in bleach. You can sometimes boil these to sterilise them. Have them in 60C water for 30 minutes should do the job of killing TB, higher temperatures (80C) if you want to be 100% certain. Foam rubber can melt so test a small bit first.

Glass can tolerate bleach without any issues but the silicon holding the glass together is the weak spot. Bleach causes silicon to break down. The longer the bleach is in contact with the silicon, the more damage it does to the silicon. High dose rates of bleach also damage the silicon. Most people use a high dose rate for 10-15 minutes and then flush the tank out with tap water a couple of times. Then fill with tap water, add a triple dose of dechlorinater and aerate vigorously for 24 hours to drive out any remaining chlorine.

Granulated swimming pool chlorine (Calcium Hypochlorite) is safer for aquariums because it doesn't have any surfactants (soaps) in compared to household bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite), which usually has surfactants.

If there are surfactants in the bleach, you should rinse the tank out at least 6 times to remove the soap residue.

 

[Colin_T]

This is what Adrian Tappin wrote in his Rainbowfish ebook pdf document about cleaning out tanks that had Fish TB.

Rainbowfishes - Their care & keeping in captivity
By Adrian R. Tappin
Second Edition - Copyright 2011, Art Publications
pages 533-534

Mycobacterium (Fish TB)

In most situations, the customary treatment for infected fish or populations is euthanasia of the entire stock (especially in breeding facilities), and the disinfection of the aquarium before restocking with clean stock. Fish that have survived an epizootic disease and have recovered may be latent carriers, posing a significant risk to the entire population. It is generally believed that infected fishes are the main source and reservoir of mycobacteria in aquaria. Dead fish, which have died from mycobacteria infection, and live carrier fish, can spread these bacteria. Obviously, the practise of feeding sick rainbowfishes to your pet Saratoga or fluffy feline has its risks. Under no circumstances should fish from an infected population be sold, moved or given away.

Break down the original infected aquarium and any other tank use as a treatment or quarantine tank and disinfect them with a strong chlorine solution. Use Calcium hypochlorite 65% to disinfect any tanks, which are in the vicinity of others housing live fish. Granular chlorine does not volatilise as readily as liquid chlorine (Sodium hypochlorite). In a poorly ventilated fishroom, fumes from liquid chlorine can cause fish kills in adjacent tanks.
Concentrations of 200-1000 mg/L available chlorine for 60 minutes should be effective for disinfections of tanks, substrate, and submersed equipment (keep filters running during treatment). In addition, all equipment that has been in contact with the infected fish should be disinfected. Gloves should be worn when handling infected fish or cleaning contaminated tanks or other equipment. Hands should be washed thoroughly afterwards with 70%
isopropyl alcohol and a bactericidal soap.

Always use chlorine with caution as repeated use and extended exposure of the silicon sealant to strong chlorine solutions will destroy or render the adhesive bond ineffective on glass aquariums with disastrous results.
Chlorine will dissolve synthetic material like sponge filters, but most plastics are unaffected. Calcium hypochlorite is an oxidising agent and should not be exposed to intense heat, acids, or organic compounds because it is a fire hazard, particularly if wet. In some cases, explosion may occur. Always wear eye protection and rubber gloves when handling large quantities of chlorine. Chlorine can be neutralised by adding sodium thiosulfate to the solution (7.5
grams of sodium thiosulfate will neutralise the chlorine present in 5 litres of a solution of 200 mg/L).

However, disinfection is not always successful due in large part to the resistance of many species of mycobacteria to common disinfectants. Mycobacteria are resistant to many commonly used bactericidal agents at standard dosage rates, including chlorine and quaternary ammonium compounds. Mycobacteria can be highly resistant to chlorine disinfection.
As much as 10,000 mg/L available chlorine has been reported necessary to kill some species of mycobacteria. Bacterial biofilm in an aquarium can harbour the organism even after aquariums and equipment are disinfected; indeed,
biofilm bacteria appear to be more resistant to disinfection than free organisms.

Veterinarians at the National Aquarium in Baltimore, USA recommend using chlorine to clean the tank and substrate, etc., and then spray 65-90% isopropyl alcohol onto the glass, and allow it to dry. They recommend the alcohol as they found that chlorine does not kill all mycobacteria. They use chlorine to remove/oxidise organic material to assure the alcohol contacts all mycobacteria in/on the tank (D. Petty DVM, pers. comm. 1998). Remove all residues of disinfectant from the aquarium before reuse.

Ultimately, the control of mycobacteriosis in aquaria first requires a thorough understanding of the virulence, prevalence, distribution and potential modes of transmission for mycobacteria species found in aquarium systems. There
are significant differences in virulence between the various species of mycobacteria that infect aquarium fishes, highlighting the importance of species identification. Preventing the introduction of the highly virulent species or strains to aquarium systems is paramount, because once established, mycobacteria can be very difficult to eliminate. Some species are very common in water and have been isolated from aquaria in the absence of disease (Beran et al. 2006). With these low virulent, ubiquitous strains, dramatic measures such as entire euthanasia of the affected population may not be warranted. However, even with these strains, it would be prudent to minimise the spread of infections. Even in the absence of mortalities, chronic underlying infections are a threat to the overall health of your fishes and it is imperative that disease be minimised.

Antibiotic treatment is usually discouraged due to lengthy treatment times and varying susceptibility of mycobacteria species to different antibiotics (Docostere et al. 2004). However, in circumstances where a stock of fish is very valuable, identification of the mycobacteria species, followed by treatment with the appropriate antibiotic, based on known vulnerability or susceptibility testing, might be advisable upon the recommendation of a qualified fish health professional. Depopulation and disinfection of the aquarium may be necessary when all other measures fail. This unfavourable
course of action may be avoidable by minimising the chances of introduction and spread within aquarium facilities.

Clearly, prevention and appropriate routine disinfection should be viewed as the primary means to control mycobacteria in aquarium systems. The quarantine of incoming fish and eggs, regular monitoring, minimising circulating mycobacteria through regular cleaning and maintenance, and upkeep of a UV sterilisation system are the recommended standards.

If more than one aquarium is used, it might be advisable to remove all fish from one system and thoroughly clean and disinfect it from time to time. The chronic nature of mycobacteriosis means that it is often too late for any
remedial action to be taken once the first cases have been observed and diagnosed. The same protocol can be used in quarantine systems, at least on a periodic basis, to prevent potential concentration of mycobacteria.

Although fish should be quarantined for at least 4~8 weeks before being placed in their main aquarium, most fish become clinically affected after a longer period of time. Therefore, direct lethal sampling of a quarantined
population, with histopathology and culture, may be necessary to detect subclinical infections.

Ideally all equipment such as nets, hoses, buckets, etc. that comes into contact with stock (diseased or healthy) should be regularly immersed into a strong biocide (such as hypochlorite or iodophores), ideally after each use, to
achieve sterilisation. At the conclusion of the disinfection process, any residual chlorine can be neutralised by adding crystals of sodium thiosulphate. Any biocide must be rinsed adequately prior to reuse because these compounds are toxic to fish.

I have the whole ebook if anyone is interested but it's 193MB and I don't know how to email something that big.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Have a read here.
Mark Adkison, Research Scientist Supervisor I for the California Department of Fish & Wildlife, CDFW, recommends a chlorine bleach solution of 200mg/L for fish tanks and the equipment.
Disinfecting Aquariums and Equipment for the CAEP

 

[Fishfunn]

So I have been researching a little… a major bleach manufacturer, has a chart for sterilization, and my best extrapolation of that is, I will need a gallon and a quart of pure bleach, with an exposure time of 6 minutes, to sterilize a 55 gallon aquarium, hard scape, and filters…

If that would sterilize a fish TB exposed tank and equipment, I think that’s something I think I could do…. Next question, is how much time and water change would be required to make a refill safe for fish again??? I don’t have chlorinated water, but assume adding a dechlorinator would be a good idea, before adding fish again, as a precaution…

And I understand that would kill all the beneficial bacteria, so there would be none in the tank or filter components… so it would be like starting a new aquarium…

I’m unsure how filter sponges would react to that concentration, but would likely run the filters, for circulation without any contents, and start with new there???

Thoughts???

I have placed sponges in boiling water that sterilized them. Just make sure to turn off heat before putting anything in the hot water.

 

[fishorama]

I've had 2 cases of TB in 40+ years, The first wiped out a 55g community tank. Heartbreaking & slow. I understood I would forever after quarantine new fish. We bleached the heck out of the empty tank, threw away media, substrate, plastic plants, etc.

30 years later I "won" a small group of neon blue dwarf rainbows (praecox). I lost a couple, slowly, in QT before I realized what was wrong. I euthanized the remaining obviously ill fish, after consulting with another experienced fish person. I bleached & threw out anything else used in that tank, including the small old filter. I left the dried out tank in the garage for 2 or 3 years. After talking to 2tank, I felt it was OK to give it to someone who only wanted it for a plant grow out tank. He thought drying out for so long would have destroyed all biofilm & TB.

I used to have a good article on how biofilms work & what diseases can hide in them. TB is 1 of them. Biofilms can be hard to remove, bleach doesn't always do it. You have to break through its protective "wall" & kill all behind it. It's much harder than it sounds.

TB is the only disease I'm truly scared of. Bacteria, ich, internal parasites, etc. can be treated with at least fair or even slight chance of curing them. That paranoid statement aside, I will not ever try bigger rainbowfish, but maybe pseudomugils or similar? Someday? Or maybe not...I "think" they're not as prone to TB but I could be wrong.

 

[Colin_T]

30 years later I "won" a small group of neon blue dwarf rainbows (praecox). I lost a couple, slowly, in QT before I realized what was wrong. I euthanized the remaining obviously ill fish, after consulting with another experienced fish person. I bleached & threw out anything else used in that tank, including the small old filter. I left the dried out tank in the garage for 2 or 3 years. After talking to 2tank, I felt it was OK to give it to someone who only wanted it for a plant grow out tank. He thought drying out for so long would have destroyed all biofilm & TB.

I used to have a good article on how biofilms work & what diseases can hide in them. TB is 1 of them. Biofilms can be hard to remove, bleach doesn't always do it. You have to break through its protective "wall" & kill all behind it. It's much harder than it sounds.

TB is the only disease I'm truly scared of. Bacteria, ich, internal parasites, etc. can be treated with at least fair or even slight chance of curing them. That paranoid statement aside, I will not ever try bigger rainbowfish, but maybe pseudomugils or similar? Someday? Or maybe not...I "think" they're not as prone to TB but I could be wrong.

Chlorine/ Bleach will break down biofilm. You can also bleach, then rinse, then soak with vinegar. The vinegar dissolves some biofilm and various bacteria. Alcohol (60%+) can be used as a final clean up to kill anything that survived the bleach and vinegar.

Plastic items can be bleached and rinsed with tap water. If you are really paranoid you can bleach, then rinse, then bleach and rinse again. But soaking plastic items in bleach for 24 hours will kill pretty much anything on it including Mycobacteria. You can also use a high dose of bleach on plastic items without affecting the plastic.

Fish related Mycobacteria can live out of water in a dormant state for at least 8 years so drying for 2 years won't kill it unless you bleach the stuff first. The bleach dissolves the waxy coating on the Mycobacteria and then they are susceptible to normal things that kill microscopic organisms, including normal disinfectant, sunlight (uv) and drying out.

Rainbowfish are suffering from TB quite badly and this is to do with the breeders selling infected fish and the fact TB is in every pet shop, exporter and importer around the world. Rainbowfishes never evolved with TB and the strains of Mycobacteria from Asia and Europe are destroying the fish because they have no defenses against it. If you get wild caught fishes, you are much less likely to have issues with it. Some fish like Melanotaenia praecox are regularly infected due to the numbers being produced and sold, whereas Pseudomugils are less likely to be affected due to being not as commonly available and therefore less likely to be exposed to TB.

edited to fix bad typing and brain going off to lala land. I wrote black instead of bleach, it's fixed now.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I can show you a paper on the penetration of chloramine and chlorine into a biofilm and how it affects the bacteria. Chkoramine does not actually kill the bacteria if the is any ammonia available. All it does is to put them to sleep. Ammonia wakes them back up and they go back to work. Chloramine penetrates a biofilm fairly rapidly.

On the other hand. it can take 24 hours for chlorine to penertate fully. But this was not chlorine in huge concentrations. The research was looking at what might be expected to come into a tank not a super dose. However, while the chlormine did not kill the bacteria, the chlorine did.

ee WH, Wahman DG, Bishop PL, Pressman JG. Free chlorine and monochloramine application to nitrifying biofilm: comparison of biofilm penetration, activity, and viability. Environ Sci Technol. 2011 Feb 15;45(4):1412-9. doi: 10.1021/es1035305. Epub 2011 Jan 12. PMID: 21226531.

Abstract​

Biofilm in drinking water systems is undesirable. Free chlorine and monochloramine are commonly used as secondary drinking water disinfectants, but monochloramine is perceived to penetrate biofilm better than free chlorine. However, this hypothesis remains unconfirmed by direct biofilm monochloramine measurement. This study compared free chlorine and monochloramine biofilm penetration into an undefined mixed-culture nitrifying biofilm by use of microelectrodes and assessed the subsequent effect on biofilm activity and viability by use of dissolved oxygen (DO) microelectrodes and confocal laser scanning microscopy (CLSM) with LIVE/DEAD BacLight. For equivalent chlorine concentrations, monochloramine initially penetrated biofilm 170 times faster than free chlorine, and even after subsequent application to a monochloramine penetrated biofilm, free chlorine penetration was limited. DO profiles paralleled monochloramine profiles, providing evidence that either the biofilm was inactivated with monochloramine's penetration or its persistence reduced available substrate (free ammonia). While this research clearly demonstrated monochloramine's greater penetration, this penetration did not necessarily translate to immediate viability loss. Even though free chlorine's penetration was limited compared to that of monochloramine, it more effectively (on a cell membrane integrity basis) inactivated microorganisms near the biofilm surface. Limited free chlorine penetration has implications when converting to free chlorine in full-scale chloraminated systems in response to nitrification episodes.
from https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21226531/
(This paper needs one to have the kind of institutional access I do not to be able to read the entire paper.)

So, what we can figure out from the above that one needs to use a strong bleach solution to kill things effectively. I am not so sure that using a strong bleach solution and then letting it sit for 24 hours would not damage the silicone seals in a tank. TB in a tank is not all that common. A lot of other things occur way more often and they are easier to kill.

Most solid equipment will not be damaged by a strong bleaching for some time. Discoloration is the most likely result. So I have always had good luck with how I bleach stuff to disinfect it. This has mostly been in a hospital or Q tank where I failed to cure fish which had issues. I will usually bleach filters, decor rocks etc. The things that do not break down easily from exposure to bleach.

My experience in the area of disinfecting has never involved TB to my knowledge. I have to assume that is it were in a used tank I bough my method would not have wiped out the TB and if so, I would have wiped out the fish that went into the tank after I put it into use.

One of the things that has helped me to avoid bringing in [problems with new fish is from where I acquired them and then because I do Q almost always. Over the years I have been very lucky in terms of diseases and parasites. First, in not having a lot of them occur and second because I was able to deal with them most of the time. I lost 19/20 fish in a Q tank due to nasty ich that was not visable when I got the fish from a store. It was one the the very rare times I shopped in a store.

edited for typos

 

[fishorama]

The biofilm article I had is no longer available with the link I had. The drawings were great as were the explanations in (mostly) layman's terms. From what I remember heavy bleach can start to get through the biofilm waxy "wall" with scrubbing. It also involved rubbing alcohol & maybe an acid too. I did all those & was still too paranoid to use the tank again. TB (myco) is much, much scarier to me than most bacteria or other diseases...& it's also more resistant to our main disinfection techniques...& people can be infected with myco sometimes as well, a big eww!!! NO!

Dr Tim Hovniac (sorry, spelling? of Dr. Tim's 1 & Only cycling bacteria) also chimed in when discussing biofilms on a different site. He. of course, had a much more in depth understanding, but since he's also a Stephen Jay Gould fan LOL, I like him more than ever. He's my kind of geek

Of course, some of us buy used tanks & goodness knows what happened to have a tank available (moving house or a plague?). I always think it could something dire...but not mycobacteriosis (sp?). It's not super common, but like I said, I've had it twice. It does seem to be more common nowadays, or maybe I'm just more aware & paranoid now. There was lfs where I used to live that seemed to always have myco signs in their fish. I bought plants or supplies 1 or 2 times from non-fish tank, never fish.

There was a site about wild native rainbowfish (.org?) that had mycobacteriosis infections, hence my reluctance to ever keep those species; wild or farmed.

Yes. I may be overreacting, but myco ain't no resistant ich or bacterial infestation. With ich & most diseases I feel like I have a good fighting chance if I catch it early & work hard. I don't feel like that about myco.