Ok… are there really any benefits to fishless cycling, over the instant, add beneficial bacteria, and add fish the same day???

[Magnum Man]

I’ve not read or seen any issues with adding the bacteria… am I missing something??? Both require adding “stuff” to the tank, one method is simple, one complex… there are several brands of bacteria available from Tetra to API

I have a big bottle of API here for transferring some breeding size Tilapia from their big outside tanks to aquariums to breed over winter… I’ll add the bacteria, the day I sex them to move

I still have my tanks running with hang on tank, and sponge filters, but will add the bacteria, at the recommended time before adding the fish ( I think it’s less ke an hour )

 

[AlexT]

My understanding is that all those brands do little or nothing with the exception of Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tims All in One. Now, Dr Tims all in one did work for me, but it still needed about 7-10 days to work properly in my experience. Tetra Safe Start has been hit and miss for me, but my money would be on that it does atleast speed up the process. I think all these labels that say you can safely introduce fish immediately based on adding the "bacteria" are utter horse sh*t, even the Tetra Safe Start (if it does say that on the label, I cannot remember). There will be still be ammonia and nitrite spikes to varying degrees.

I don't think it's ethical to put fish in a set up where you know full well you don't have mature filter media, but that's a discussion or argument for another time I think! Not directed at you, just my own head rambling. Perhaps the exception is fish "in" cycling that is very conservative with heavy water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite to virtually nil, or if it's a dire emergency and you literally have no other option. Just my personal opinion that Mr Mags.

EDIT: I mean fish in cycling, corrected

 

[AlexT]

I should add, I have used a UK product as a test recently that processed 3ppm of Ammonia to zero and had Nitrite down to zero after 84 hours total from start to finish (i.e. cycled). They probably don't mail to the land of opportunity, because you need to buy their mature bacteria pack and rub it into your filter media within 72 hrs of them packaging it up in the UK https://nitrico.co.uk/pages.php?pID=9

 

[Magnum Man]

API is one of the most trusted brands in aquarium water testing… I’ve not tried this, but it’s what I bought… transferring adult Tilapia would be a challenge to precycle for

 

[Magnum Man]

Reading the back label either this product, or API are from the UK

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

The only way I would do this is if the tank already had a heck load of plants growing...and even then I wouldn't need the bottled bacteria @Essjay is the chemist so she'll be able to tell you more about it but I'm pretty sure tetra safestart and Tim's are the only brands that contain the correct nitrifying bacteria we need

 

[sharkweek178]

Those bottled bacteria don't instantly cycle. They just accelerate the process a little.

 

[Magnum Man]

Transferring fish from outside to these tanks will be a big load… there will be like 4 young adults added to a 45 gallon with a divider to keep the male separated… tank is way over filtered by gallon size… 2 Seachem Todal 75’s, and 2 sponge filters rated at 60 gallons per filter… so there will be plenty of water flow, and surface area for the bacteria to attach to… hopefully it works out… I’ll be testing my water, and adding additional API if needed… if things start going south, I could move either the male, or the female group to the 65 gallon, for a while, while things season…with 4 of the big sponge filters in, and add the API to that as well… ideally the 65 was going to be a breeding tank, then remove the adults, and raise the fry there

 

[10 Tanks]

I’ve not read or seen any issues with adding the bacteria… am I missing something??? Both require adding “stuff” to the tank, one method is simple, one complex… there are several brands of bacteria available from Tetra to API

I have a big bottle of API here for transferring some breeding size Tilapia from their big outside tanks to aquariums to breed over winter… I’ll add the bacteria, the day I sex them to move

I still have my tanks running with hang on tank, and sponge filters, but will add the bacteria, at the recommended time before adding the fish ( I think it’s less ke an hour )

Hello Magnum. Good question. I always cycle a tank with fish. I just like having fish in the tank from almost day one. I set up the tank and allow it to run with no fish for a couple of days to establish the water temperature. I put in whatever fish I want and just change half or a bit more of the tank water every few days and always dose a bacteria starter. I never feed more than a little every couple of days. I don't set up small tanks and that's always a better environment for any fish.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[Magnum Man]

Cool… I’m not supposed to feed them on a grow schedule, like they are on now, and put them on a diet anyway, when switching them from farm to tank, so that will cut down on some of the waste… they are eating and pooping machines right now, trying to finish them out

 

[GaryE]

@Byron has done some research on the products in question, and hopefully will be around and can cut and paste in some of the excellent postings he's offered in the past.
I'm fortunate that when I needed to start, I always knew fellow aquarists who would pop some media into a filter for me, and start things up that way. I don't do fishless cycles, or friendless cycles now. It's one of the advantages when you can meet aquarists who are not just online.

 

[Cavendish]

In the UK there's masses of decent live bacteria options, the gel or gel balls seem to work really well and can take a mass of ammonia load, they're used for koi ponds and much cheaper than aquarium specific products. I'd personally choose them over api quick start as I've had better results from instant cycling filters with them.

 

[Byron]

This summarizes the facts concerning nitrifying bacteria. References follow if anyone wants to read the scientific studies.

Nitrifying Bacteria​

​

Nitrification is the oxidation of ammonia/ammonium to nitrite and then the subsequent oxidation of nitrite to nitrate; this is performed by two groups of bacteria known collectively as nitrifying bacteria or nitrifiers. True nitrifying bacteria are autotrophs; they use chemosynthesis to manufacture their energy by using oxygen plus nitrogenous waste (ammonia or nitrite) and carbon (from CO2). There are several different bacterium species involved, all in the family Nitrobacteraceae, that carry out this function in soil, and it used to be thought that these, particularly Nitrosomonas europa and Nitrobacter, were the nitrification bacteria in freshwater. But Dr. Timothy Hovanec led the team of scientists that proved this to be a mistaken assumption. Ammonia is converted to nitrite by bacteria of the Nitrosonomas marina-like strain [2] and nitrite is converted to nitrate by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina. [3] Subsequent scientific studies by other scientists on wastewater nitrifying bacteria confirm this data.​

​

[2] Paul C. Burrell, Carol M. Phalen, and Timothy A. Hovanec, “Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria,” Applied and Environmental Microbiology, December 2001, pp. 5791-5800.​

​

[3] Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong (1998), “Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria,” Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Vol. 64, No. 1, pp. 258-264.​

There are no so-called bacterial supplements that work in one day, with the exception of the two which hold patents. Dr. Tim's One and Only, and Tetra's Safe Start; these were developed by Dr. Hovanec. As for API's Quick Start, it does not contain the second stage nitrite-oxidizing bacteria so it will not "cycle" an aquarium. Dr. Hovanec tested several of these so-called cycling products and found that at best one or two quickened the cycling by one or two days (out of 4-8 weeks), but most did absolutely nothing.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello again. Long story, short. Just get a large tank. Set it up and fill it. Let it sit for a day or even two to get the temperature right and add your favorite fish. Change half the tank water a least weekly and dose the bacteria starter per the instructions when you change the water. Some things are just that simple.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[Ram419]

If you're starting out with your first tank it can take time and the proper nitrifying bacteria, as well as ammonia sources to get the tank and filter media fully cycled (for a fishless cycle).

But if you already have tanks, or know of someone who does, you can have media used on those existing tanks in the new one (the larger the media is the better). That, along with API quick start or whatever other bacteria helper product is out there and an ammonia source, it will be cycled pretty quick. I recently setup a Q tank with estalbished media, took about 6 days to complete the cycle.

I use Fritz PRO - Ammonium Chloride as my ammonia source.