Oh My God What Is Happening!

[evecooper]

On Wednesday i returned from a 2 week holiday.
I had used a tetra holiday block when i was away and all seemed fine, untill thursday when a neon went funny and started floating with his head down. I isolated him in the tank but he died that day.

My filter sounded like it was dying on me so i went to the pet shop and brought another one and also some new live plants, the plastic ones had seen better days. This was Thursday

The water looks a little cloudy and all the fish now (2 neons, 2 catfish and a Placotomus?? cant spell that one!) all seem to start hiding in the plants, more the neons that the catfish and plecotomus.

Today i have been out and come home to find a neon dead in the tank with no tail and no stomach by the looks of it!!

Does anyone had a clue as to what is going on and should i expect to see anymore die???

Your urgent responces needed....

 

[LauraFrog]

Is the old filter still in the tank? If not did you move cycled filter media into the new filter before you took the old one out? If not your tank is in the middle of a cycle. We really need water stats (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate). How big is the tank?

 

[evecooper]

Is the old filter still in the tank? If not did you move cycled filter media into the new filter before you took the old one out? If not your tank is in the middle of a cycle. We really need water stats (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate). How big is the tank?

Hi
No the new fiter was a completely different one, as the old one was intergated into the tank and they have now stopped making this and the filter.
The tank is only a 21Ltr and i have tonight done a waterchange.
I have also removed all the live plants and but them in a bucket as i want to monitor the fish and i cant see them.
I cant do test till tomorrow have run out of solution.

I have a Melafix (think its called!!) its a tea tree soultion will this be ok to put in to be on the safe side or shall i see how it goes?

 

[kribensis12]

So, let me get this correct, you do not have hte old filter anymore? If so, you took all the good bacteria out of the tank, and your fish will most likely die. Second, you need to remove all those fish. The pleco needs something at a minnimum of 55 gallons ( 210 litres ?) . Also, the water is not good for them at this point, because your good media is gone, meaning at this point in time, your ammonia is probably REALLY HIGH which burns your fish, your Nitrite is REALLY HIGH which suffocates your fish. I would take the fish back to the lfs and do some research on cycling.

 

[Sterbai]

So, let me get this correct, you do not have hte old filter anymore? If so, you took all the good bacteria out of the tank, and your fish will most likely die. Second, you need to remove all those fish. The pleco needs something at a minnimum of 55 gallons ( 210 litres ?) . Also, the water is not good for them at this point, because your good media is gone, meaning at this point in time, your ammonia is probably REALLY HIGH which burns your fish, your Nitrite is REALLY HIGH which suffocates your fish. I would take the fish back to the lfs and do some research on cycling.

Wow and the award for the most helpful post of the day goes to you, NOT. This guy was only asking for help not a lecture. You can still save your fish; yes it was a bad move removing your filter as it contained the 'good' bacteria but so does the substrate. What you need to do is monitor the values of the nitrates, nitrites and ammonia as your tank is most likely going to cycle again. What you need to do is get yourself some bacteria that the LFS sell in the bottles. Many brands are on the market today and the one you need to go for in the bacteria that are in spore form until released into the aquarium, an easy way to tell this by the sell by date. If it’s this year or early next year then chances are the bacteria are live and if not kept in proper storage conditions then useless. Hagen Cycle is a good bacteria product which at the moment has ause by date of 2010. Adding it to your aquarium will start to decrease those nitrite and ammonia levels. What you also need to do if you see these levels increasing is HUGE water changes, 50% - 75%, always making sure you use a chlorine/chloramine removing product such as Hagen Aqua Safe.

 

[kribensis12]

So, let me get this correct, you do not have hte old filter anymore? If so, you took all the good bacteria out of the tank, and your fish will most likely die. Second, you need to remove all those fish. The pleco needs something at a minnimum of 55 gallons ( 210 litres ?) . Also, the water is not good for them at this point, because your good media is gone, meaning at this point in time, your ammonia is probably REALLY HIGH which burns your fish, your Nitrite is REALLY HIGH which suffocates your fish. I would take the fish back to the lfs and do some research on cycling.

Wow and the award for the most helpful post of the day goes to you, NOT. This guy was only asking for help not a lecture. You can still save your fish; yes it was a bad move removing your filter as it contained the 'good' bacteria but so does the substrate. What you need to do is monitor the values of the nitrates, nitrites and ammonia as your tank is most likely going to cycle again. What you need to do is get yourself some bacteria that the LFS sell in the bottles. Many brands are on the market today and the one you need to go for in the bacteria that are in spore form until released into the aquarium, an easy way to tell this by the sell by date. If it’s this year or early next year then chances are the bacteria are live and if not kept in proper storage conditions then useless. Hagen Cycle is a good bacteria product which at the moment has ause by date of 2010. Adding it to your aquarium will start to decrease those nitrite and ammonia levels. What you also need to do if you see these levels increasing is HUGE water changes, 50% - 75%, always making sure you use a chlorine/chloramine removing product such as Hagen Aqua Safe.

Yeah, and the award for the stupidest suggestion goes to you. A bad move is wasteing your money on a cycle product. I ask you this. Bacteria needs to be areated and feed a constant stream of ammonia and Nitrite ( since there are 2 different kinds of bacteria), and unless there is a invisible air pump and a life time supply of ammonia and nitrite bottles, then it wont work. The only product you might have any luck with is a Frozen bacteria, or borrowing/buying used filter media ( that is still in tank water and not been cleaned in tap water).

 

[jennakid]

ooh. i don't know.
but the neon probably had no stomic and tail because the other fish might of ate it.
thats what happens to mine. once they die. the fish eat it.
and my snail.
sorry. can't help you there.
hope it turns out alright.
xo

 

[Sterbai]

So, let me get this correct, you do not have hte old filter anymore? If so, you took all the good bacteria out of the tank, and your fish will most likely die. Second, you need to remove all those fish. The pleco needs something at a minnimum of 55 gallons ( 210 litres ?) . Also, the water is not good for them at this point, because your good media is gone, meaning at this point in time, your ammonia is probably REALLY HIGH which burns your fish, your Nitrite is REALLY HIGH which suffocates your fish. I would take the fish back to the lfs and do some research on cycling.

Wow and the award for the most helpful post of the day goes to you, NOT. This guy was only asking for help not a lecture. You can still save your fish; yes it was a bad move removing your filter as it contained the 'good' bacteria but so does the substrate. What you need to do is monitor the values of the nitrates, nitrites and ammonia as your tank is most likely going to cycle again. What you need to do is get yourself some bacteria that the LFS sell in the bottles. Many brands are on the market today and the one you need to go for in the bacteria that are in spore form until released into the aquarium, an easy way to tell this by the sell by date. If it’s this year or early next year then chances are the bacteria are live and if not kept in proper storage conditions then useless. Hagen Cycle is a good bacteria product which at the moment has ause by date of 2010. Adding it to your aquarium will start to decrease those nitrite and ammonia levels. What you also need to do if you see these levels increasing is HUGE water changes, 50% - 75%, always making sure you use a chlorine/chloramine removing product such as Hagen Aqua Safe.

Yeah, and the award for the stupidest suggestion goes to you. A bad move is wasteing your money on a cycle product. I ask you this. Bacteria needs to be areated and feed a constant stream of ammonia and Nitrite ( since there are 2 different kinds of bacteria), and unless there is a invisible air pump and a life time supply of ammonia and nitrite bottles, then it wont work. The only product you might have any luck with is a Frozen bacteria, or borrowing/buying used filter media ( that is still in tank water and not been cleaned in tap water).

WHICH is why I said make sure you get a product that contains bacteria spores not bacteria themselves, use your eyes and READ. You obviously have no biological background; I have a degree in biomedical sciences, so I know what I am talking about. If you want a simplified version I'll give you one. 'Spores' are basically eggs, from which the bacteria emerge and start to colonise the aquarium. These spores can stand extreme temperatures both on the upper and lower end and there is no need for an invisible air pump in the bottle .

If you want further proof of these spores read into why the water industry spends literally millions of pounds ensuring that clostridium spp. spores are eliminated from our water supply.

Before you try to give out advice, at least make sure you have some knowledge on the subject first.


Oh and for futher advice you want to give out (which I would suggest people read with a pinch of salt), there are more than two 'kinds' of bacteria that will help break ammonia and nitrites down

 

[Corleone]

WHICH is why I said make sure you get a product that contains bacteria spores not bacteria themselves, use your eyes and READ. You obviously have no biological background; I have a degree in biomedical sciences, so I know what I am talking about. If you want a simplified version I'll give you one. 'Spores' are basically eggs, from which the bacteria emerge and start to colonise the aquarium. These spores can stand extreme temperatures both on the upper and lower end and there is no need for an invisible air pump in the bottle .

Nitrobacter, Nitrosommonas, and Nitrospira are all nonsporulating. Yes, there are other bacteria that will break down ammonia, but I'll leave the explanation of why most of these products fail to the science section, where it's discussed in extreme detail.

There's simple tests you can do at home to even see if there's bacteria of any type in the bottle, and I've yet to find a shelf bottle that gives a meaningful reaction.

 

[minxfishy]

You are now effectively doing a fish-in cycle, please have a read of MW's pinned topic on whats cycling, it will give you all the info you need on water changes and testing to help your fish survive and get your filter cycled again.

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

 

[BecciMac1987]

[/quote]
Oh and for futher advice you want to give out (which I would suggest people read with a pinch of salt), there are more than two 'kinds' of bacteria that will help break ammonia and nitrites down
[/quote]

Just for the record, Krib gives out great advice thanks and has helped out a lot of other fish keepers on this forum.

(bugger didnt quote that properly from Sterbai but you get the point!)

 

[Sterbai]

Just for the record, Krib gives out great advice thanks and has helped out a lot of other fish keepers on this forum.

Great advice telling someone that there fish are going to die, yeah I thought not . And as for these bacteria products not working, yes there are many that are effectively useless but I have conducted tests outside fo the aquarium in the Lab and some do work.

 

[kribensis12]

Just for the record, Krib gives out great advice thanks and has helped out a lot of other fish keepers on this forum.

Great advice telling someone that there fish are going to die, yeah I thought not . And as for these bacteria products not working, yes there are many that are effectively useless but I have conducted tests outside fo the aquarium in the Lab and some do work.

Obviously you didnt read MY post right. I said her fish would MOST LIKELY die, if you a a degree in bio medical whatever ( which means nothing to me, just becaused i've passed algebra dosent mean i knew what they were talking about), you should know that ammonia burns and any amount is dangerous, and that Nitrite suffocates the fish ( making it harder for the fishes blood to carry oxygen), so, in that case, which a pleco poops its weight, and it belongs in a tank 9 times that size, and its over stocked with tetras ( which need to be in rather large groups), that means ALOT of ammonia, and NO bacteria to convert the ammonia, to Nitrite, to nitrate, then what happens? ALOT of Ammonia, and possibly some nitrate. And if theese fish were to live through the cycling process, then what side effects will theese fish live with? Will their immune system be comprimised? Will they not be able to swim right? Why would you put a fish through something like this?

To the OP: I would take your fish back to the lfs, try to get come MATURE CYCLED Media from a freind or a lfs, or you could listen to Sterbai's advice on the bottled "spores" ( which i would do because its a waste of money, especially since they dont even sporulate , thanks to Corleone's advice) . When you have gone throuhg eiother getting mature media or buying a product, or another means of cycling, i would get 3 guppies and maybe a snail or 2, but other than that, your tank cant hold much.

 

[Sterbai]

Just for the record, Krib gives out great advice thanks and has helped out a lot of other fish keepers on this forum.

Great advice telling someone that there fish are going to die, yeah I thought not . And as for these bacteria products not working, yes there are many that are effectively useless but I have conducted tests outside fo the aquarium in the Lab and some do work.

Obviously you didnt read MY post right. I said her fish would MOST LIKELY die, if you a a degree in bio medical whatever ( which means nothing to me, just becaused i've passed algebra dosent mean i knew what they were talking about), you should know that ammonia burns and any amount is dangerous, and that Nitrite suffocates the fish ( making it harder for the fishes blood to carry oxygen), so, in that case, which a pleco poops its weight, and it belongs in a tank 9 times that size, and its over stocked with tetras ( which need to be in rather large groups), that means ALOT of ammonia, and NO bacteria to convert the ammonia, to Nitrite, to nitrate, then what happens? ALOT of Ammonia, and possibly some nitrate. And if theese fish were to live through the cycling process, then what side effects will theese fish live with? Will their immune system be comprimised? Will they not be able to swim right? Why would you put a fish through something like this?

To the OP: I would take your fish back to the lfs, try to get come MATURE CYCLED Media from a freind or a lfs, or you could listen to Sterbai's advice on the bottled "spores" ( which i would do because its a waste of money, especially since they dont even sporulate , thanks to Corleone's advice) . When you have gone throuhg eiother getting mature media or buying a product, or another means of cycling, i would get 3 guppies and maybe a snail or 2, but other than that, your tank cant hold much.

Some bacteria sporulate to produce spores, spores do not sporulate, Corleone was incorrect. I never said that ammonia and nitrites aren’t harmful to fish, I said there is no need to give such a bleak outlook. I know what I am talking about and chose to give advice, as you said yourself, you have just finished your algebra and it's evident as your immaturity comes across in your posts, you might also want to start reading through them before you post as they don’t make sense in some parts. Cycling with fish in the tank isn’t uncommon; a lot of people do it on the marine side including myself using Chromis. Take whatever advice you want, I have 16 years experience, whereas this guy is 16. I think the way the posts are constructed will give you an insight as to who has the better knowledge.

The increase in methemoglobin from the presence of nitrites can have detrimental effects on the fishes overall health as it effectively starves the fish of oxygen leading to susceptibility of other diseases i.e liver damage, ich, fin rot, baterial infections etc but this can be avoided by large water changes and a reduction in the amount you are feeding the fish until the cycle has ended. The addition of one half ounce of aquarium salt per gallon of water will prevent methemoglobin from building up.

Peace.

 

[kribensis12]

Just for the record, Krib gives out great advice thanks and has helped out a lot of other fish keepers on this forum.

Great advice telling someone that there fish are going to die, yeah I thought not . And as for these bacteria products not working, yes there are many that are effectively useless but I have conducted tests outside fo the aquarium in the Lab and some do work.

Obviously you didnt read MY post right. I said her fish would MOST LIKELY die, if you a a degree in bio medical whatever ( which means nothing to me, just becaused i've passed algebra dosent mean i knew what they were talking about), you should know that ammonia burns and any amount is dangerous, and that Nitrite suffocates the fish ( making it harder for the fishes blood to carry oxygen), so, in that case, which a pleco poops its weight, and it belongs in a tank 9 times that size, and its over stocked with tetras ( which need to be in rather large groups), that means ALOT of ammonia, and NO bacteria to convert the ammonia, to Nitrite, to nitrate, then what happens? ALOT of Ammonia, and possibly some nitrate. And if theese fish were to live through the cycling process, then what side effects will theese fish live with? Will their immune system be comprimised? Will they not be able to swim right? Why would you put a fish through something like this?

To the OP: I would take your fish back to the lfs, try to get come MATURE CYCLED Media from a freind or a lfs, or you could listen to Sterbai's advice on the bottled "spores" ( which i would do because its a waste of money, especially since they dont even sporulate , thanks to Corleone's advice) . When you have gone throuhg eiother getting mature media or buying a product, or another means of cycling, i would get 3 guppies and maybe a snail or 2, but other than that, your tank cant hold much.

Some bacteria sporulate to produce spores, spores do not sporulate, Corleone was incorrect. I never said that ammonia and nitrites aren’t harmful to fish, I said there is no need to give such a bleak outlook. I know what I am talking about and chose to give advice, as you said yourself, you have just finished your algebra and it's evident as your immaturity comes across in your posts, you might also want to start reading through them before you post as they don’t make sense in some parts. Cycling with fish in the tank isn’t uncommon; a lot of people do it on the marine side including myself using Chromis. Take whatever advice you want, I have 16 years experience, whereas this guy is 16. I think the way the posts are constructed will give you an insight as to who has the better knowledge.

The increase in methemoglobin from the presence of nitrites can have detrimental effects on the fishes overall health as it effectively starves the fish of oxygen leading to susceptibility of other diseases i.e liver damage, ich, fin rot, baterial infections etc but this can be avoided by large water changes and a reduction in the amount you are feeding the fish until the cycle has ended. The addition of one half ounce of aquarium salt per gallon of water will prevent methemoglobin from building up.

Peace.

First off, im 14. You never said there is no need to give a bleak out look. You said " yeah, great advice telling someone that their fish is going to die", and that was smotherd in a sarcastic tone. Age dosent define how much a person knows, and i find that a little immature that you would use that card. I would not label myself immature , and you can if you want, but i know im not immature ( especially with all the remarks older people give me about being so mature for my age). The reason i dont have a good post structure is because i have ADD and i tend to have many different thoughts in my head and things spill out, such as i can be talking about ammonia one minute, and the next sentence involves a whale. I rerad through my posts, and i figure people understand what im saying. I usually cycle with my fish, but those arent the fish you should be cycling with, especially tetras, they are as hardy as a Discus( not very hearty). And the pleco isnt in the appropiate tank size. If you were to cycle with fish, i would start with feeder guppies( they can be carrying diseases) or something a little hardier. Some fish ( such as tetras) cant handle Aquarium salt anyway.