Oak Leaves

[Fluval-1200]

Been trying to breed my neon tetras for awhile now with no look, read online that oak leaves would lower ph and add humic substances or something.
 
Got aload of nice leaves and added one to my tank about a week ago, my ph went through the roof. To high for the high range to even read.
 
 
What's this about? and they are defiantly oak leaves before anyone asks lol

 

[DreamertK]

Where did you get the leaves? Is there any chance that pesticides/chemicals were sprayed on/around the tree?

 

[Byron]

I agree; oak leaves on their own will not raise pH.  They do tend to lower it, along with the GH, but depending upon the initial GH and KH of your source water this may or may not be noticeable even.
 
To get neons into breeding mode, you need very soft water.  This will naturally tend to be on the acidic side, but adding oak leaves, peat, wood and other organic matter will more easily create the tannic very soft and acidic water that you want.  Darkening the tank is also advisable, achieved with minimal lighting, floating plants, and covering the back and side glass panes with black.
 
Leaves are a remarkable benefit in raising fry.  The fry grow significantly faster, and it is undoubtedly because they are eating microscopic food like infusoria that the leaves produce.  I have had tremendous results using oak leaves with my Farlowella vitatta fry, and now the pygmy corys.
 
Byron.

 

[Fluval-1200]

My ph is usually around the 7.2-7.4 mark, that's why I wanted to use the leaves. Im proper confused about the leaves lol, no pesticides or anything on them and I suppose if there was my fish would be dead. I actually collected loads of dead ones and left them in my cupboard for a couple weeks before using to make sure they are dead + gave them a quick rinse off under the tap first.
 
The tank has a background all the way around so quite dark, females are separated and my aim now is adjusting the water ( with the leaves)
 
Gutted!!!

 

[Byron]

I would suggest you look into the rise in pH, as something had to cause it.  Have you tested the tap water pH?  Sometimes water boards may adjust this or that, causing changes in pH.  Remember to out-gas the CO2 before testing tap water; you can do this by briskly shaking some tap water in a sealed jar for several minutes, or alternatively let it sit out uncovered for 24 hours.  Then test; this will give you a more reliable reading.  The amount of dissolved CO2 in tap water can vary and it affects acidity, thus the pH.
 
What is the GH and KH of your tap water?  This is related and will affect your attempts to lower the pH as well as spawning.
 
Byron.

 

[Fluval-1200]

Took the leaf out and done a 50% water change its now back down to around the 7 mark.
 
The leaf caused my ph to rise lol, I may put one in a glass of water and record it over a couple days.

 

[Lunar Jetman]

The leaf caused my ph to rise lol, I may put one in a glass of water and record it over a couple days.

 
One leaf in a 323l tank?

 

[ShinySideUp]

I too would prefer a lower pH and to that end I have put another large piece of wood in the tank but it has made no difference as yet. What quantity of oak leaves might lower the pH in a 640 litre tank?

 

[Tongue_Flicker]

most dried leaves contain tannic acid. It is enough to bronze your water a bit but it won't affect water pH. must be something else in your water

 

[Byron]

I too would prefer a lower pH and to that end I have put another large piece of wood in the tank but it has made no difference as yet. What quantity of oak leaves might lower the pH in a 640 litre tank?

 
Wood, leaves, peat, and similar organic matter does tend to soften water and lower pH, but the extent to which it will do this depends upon the initial GH, KH and pH.  These three are connected.  For example, the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) serves as a buffer to maintain the pH where it is, so attempts to lower it will usually fail (which is primarily why the pH lowering chemicals frequently don't work).  So before you attempt to lower the pH, understand that it is usually linked to the GH and KH, and without lowering/reducing these, the pH is likely going to remain where it is.  Now, there are exceptions but I'll pass on those.
 
Byron.

 

[DreamertK]

The mystery is what caused his tank water to raise in PH instead of lower with the leaves added. Even if OP had sky high hardness, that would make it even more of a mystery why the PH went higher instead of staying the same or lowering.
 
It could be the tap water changed, which happens occasionally with water companies. Sometimes they put stuff in the water after a rain or the runoff they collected could be more alkaline for some reason.

 

[Fluval-1200]

Its only a little 10gal tank and 1 leaf, I change the water in my big tank and small tank at the same time so if it was the tap water my large tank would be higher ph than normal but it isn't.
 
Trust me its the leaf that made the ph rise, im just hoping this hasn't damaged my neon's (heard high ph can damage the females reproduction organs) not sure its that true though?
 
Shiny side up I think youd be looking at using peat balls In your 640litre tank, or a whole load of leaves haha.

 

[DreamertK]

But the 10g has a lot more room to change water conditions than a larger tank. Though I've never used oak/almond leaves so I would have no knowledge of the matter other than it being a peculiar case.
 
If it was a very drastic shift, they would have died. But just temporary high PH won't harm them too much, it's the long term that they believe does it.

 

[Byron]

I'm wondering if your test was accurate?  If you add one drop too many of the regent, it affects the result.  I would seriously doubt the leaf had anything to do with this; the leaf itself, as an oak leaf, will not raise pH.
 
There is also the normal diurnal fluctuation in pH; it will be higher in the evening (meaning after the tank lights have been on and the plants photosynthesizing) and lower in the early morning (meaning after the night darkness and prior to the tank lights coming on).  The fluctuation is usually not too great, several decimal points at most, but you have not told us what the high pH reading was, or when you made the tests.
 
Byron.

 

[Fluval-1200]

3 drops of the test regent and I tested it twice as I couldn't believe it. Was on the higher end of the high range ph test 8.8 my usual reading is around 7.2-7.4. Tested around 2-3pm in the day.
 
Tank isn't planted and nothing new was added to the tank other than that leaf.
 
 
People don't read off my bio its wrong and wont change lol.