Notes from a 60 tank fishroom.

[GaryE]

You may have already read it but this seems interesting http://cichlidnews.com/issues/2012oct/Xjudy.html

I hadn't realized Ted Judy had collected those Cichlids. He's a brilliant aquarist, and I am going to have a try at his technique. That is a degree of inventiveness I'd like to have. Wow.

It looks like we got the brevirostris from the same stream, only by this summer, the gold miners had silted it up badly - it was bright yellow and I didn't think anything would be alive in there.

My 8 month old retriever puppy is standing at her water bowl exhaling and listening to the bubbles. When your dog wants to sound like a fishtank, you know you need to pay her more attention.

 

[GaryE]

This is a longer thread than I anticipated. I didn't think it would generate discussion, and would be like a blog. Some of the other journals work that way, but I like this better.

Overall, it's been an uneventful week. The young fish are growing, eggs are incubating, tanks are getting cleaned.

I followed the link @Fishfanatic34 suggested, and have tried it. No action yet, but the fish are curious. I'm telling myself the female is looking closer to what I expect for spawning, but that may be wishful.
When I bred a lot of Apistogramma veijita, I would fill a box filter with peat, and drop it in. It never changed the water, but the Apistos would always spawn within 24 hours. It was probably hormones in the peat. It worked for no other species but veijita. So many tricks to try.

I'm going to stop feeding freshly hatched brine shrimp til after xmas, since I have a Hydra outbreak across a bunch of tanks. This version isn't catching fry, but it's ugly, and it still can sting larger fish. I haven't seen any problems, but if you leave them to run, they will run. This is a whitish green species, so it photosynthesizes as well, or at least it has symbiotic algae that does. I used to get a larger orange/brown one, made oranger by all the artemia it caught. It killed rainbow fry with glee. This one isn't as noxious. It probably came in with live food this summer, and only 'broke out' in the last couple of weeks. I'll knock it back. It's always there, somewhere.

I am seeing little miniature Microctenopoma aff. nanum fry. They started miniscule, but seem to have a serious rate of growth. I expect there were hundreds, but if I have 15 or 20, I'll be happy. If they breed again, I may do better with what I've learned. It's really convenient this fish is content with my room temperatures. Asian gouramis take heaters to raise.

 

[GaryE]

It's a weird warm day. 13c yesterday and 8c early this morning. This makes no sense, as it is far far above averages at this time of year. So I took some fish for a walk this morning, across the road, through the graveyard and along the high ground overlooking the boiling sea. We are experiencing southerly winds with real force, and I thought the dog and the fish would like a stroll.
Well, okay, it's an old trick used by those weird aquarists known as killie keepers. When Aphyosemion eggs reach overdue for hatching, you can put them in a vial with a little water, blow CO2 into the vial, cap it quickly and go for a nice walk. It will often result in a hatch. This time, it worked as some increasingly scuzzy looking eggs are now empty shells, and I have a group of tiny Aphyosemion ottogartneri greeting the world.
When the rainy seasons arrive, cool rainwater stirs up CO2 producing detritus while agitating the water.
When it's too cold out, I have been known to sit vials on rumbling appliances. That works too. The washing machine is a great fishkeeping tool.

 

[Ichthys]

There’s some wierd folk about, lol.
Is it the CO2 or a pH drop?

 

[gwand]

Will the eggs hatch faster if you sit on the vial?

 

[GaryE]

If I sit on them, they seem to get suicidal, and I hear them cursing loudly. Those are not the gasses they want.

I think it's the CO2, maybe changing the pH. The mock rainy season makes sense. The chemistry of a quickly flooding meadow would be interesting, and it is a time of great food choices for small fish.

Agitation alone doesn't do it.

The question of 'weird'? I own it. I'm fascinated by weird fish, weird life, weird evolution, weird habitats, weird people, weird music, and weird little tricks to breed fish! The unexpected is always interesting, and I get bored.
Someone figured this out, and I don't know who or how. They were weirder than I am, and I tip my hat to them.

Someday, I may knock on your door and if you answer, I'll say "Have you heard the good news about mosquito larvae?"

 

[GaryE]

Cichlid keeping with rainforest species can be a test of patience. The time between the creation of the nest, the laying of the eggs and the emergence of fry under parental care can be a slow one, and that can come after a longish period of wondering if the pair is mature. I seem finally to have something concrete developing with my Parananochromis brevirostris. This previously bland looking fish has become quite beautiful (pics when I am on the desktop later), and a coconut cave now has a wall of gravel thrown up by the door.
The pair is hovering.
Pelvicachromis from Cameroon will signal breeding by the female vanishing behind a wall of substrate, and staying in the cave to tend the eggs and then helpless larvae. Nanochromis transvestitus from the DRC would hover around multiple nests at once, pretending nothing was happening but guarding several spots ferociously.
These brevirostis have no tankmates in their heavily planted 75L/20 gall tank. The water is stained brown at pH 6.6, and the tds is 70.
Which way, if either, will they go? If eggs have been laid, and I think they have as of yesterday, indications are this pair is employing a zone defence. The female darts into the cave but comes out regularly. The male is always around, reacting quickly when I stand in front of the eye level tank.
I followed the lead @Fish Fanatic34 shared (thanks again) to an article by US aquarist Ted Judy. I did it slightly differently with sphagnum moss instead of hard to find fibrous peat. The fish have removed some of the moss and dumped it by their front door. Fingers crossed.

Otherwise, the holidays aren't great for fishkeeping. I feed the fish, and that's about it. Next week, I'll get back to it with a couple of projects in mind. In 2 weeks, maybe I'll be able to report new Cichlid fry.

 

[Colin_T]

I gave myself one hour out there, in the 22.3 celsius, 58% humidity room. 30 minutes went on water changing two racks (11 tanks), and feeding every tank. Then I got to the more fun stuff. I caught a beautiful killie in August, an Aphyosemion citrineipinnis. I don't have a single fry from them. At first, they gave me eggs, but the eggs never developed shells. In the wild, the water was zero hardness, pure and clean. They lived close to the base of some slow tumbling waterfall type rocks - about the size of an average van. They were in a flat zone, with no more than 10cm of water. The fish themselves are about 4cm.

This morning, eureka, I collected 10 eggs from one of 4 mops - the one in the bubbles from the air driven filter. They have shells, and are not orange (coppery, which is probably from all the freshly hatched brine shrimp they've been eating). I now have 2 weeks. They are in a covered tray with a bubbling airline. I will check them daily for dead eggs, and change their water 3 times if they start to develop. You see the eyes first, in just a couple of days. The eggs are transparent. It could still all go wrong, and all the eggs could be dead tomorrow. But if so, the battle continues.

They came from the base of a waterfall, which would have had highly oxygenated water and some water movement.

They produced eggs in the spawning mop that had bubbles going through it from the filter.

They probably want an airstone for extra oxygen and water movement, which is uncommon for killifish but it makes sense.

 

[GaryE]

They came from the base of a waterfall, which would have had highly oxygenated water and some water movement.

They produced eggs in the spawning mop that had bubbles going through it from the filter.

They probably want an airstone for extra oxygen and water movement, which is uncommon for killifish but it makes sense.

It's excellent advice. I have had them in moving water, and all killie eggs I collect are kept in trays with enough bubbles that they move around.

A few years ago, I removed a pair of Aphyosemion striatum from a well planted tank, to let eggs hatch out. I had a pipette in hand, and a cup full of hydrogen peroxide, and I was 'shooting' hydra to make things safer for the eventual fry. Being a klutz, I knock the peroxide over, into the tank. The whole aquarium was bubbling like a carbonated drink.

I left the tank, and in 2 weeks, had the largest hatch of striatum fry I have ever seen. It was 3 times anything I had seen before. Coincidence? Maybe.

I had a note from the European guy who also has this fish, and he noted the shells of the eggs were dissolving. He suggested the extreme cleanliness of the water we caught these fish in may have left the eggs unable to defend themselves against bacterial attacks, with standard aquarium water. He is meticulous, and was our water quality expert on the trip.

I think he has a point, although the aquarists here who are against water changes and claim nature as a reason would struggle with that. I have 2 2 inch fish in a heavily planted 20 gallon getting 40% water changes every 7 days. It has 2 filters bubbling hard, and the plants sway a tiny bit. That should be clean and oxygenated, but maybe not as clean as their beautiful stream.

I've enlisted that past mistake. I collected 2 eggs 3 days ago, and added a cap of peroxide to the incubation water. Later last night when I checked, the eggs were still good. That's the best so far. The shells are still intact. Today I'll do a water change on them and replace the peroxide. We shall see.

 

[noahm]

While you are collecting, do you log water parameters (micronutrient and standard minerals/chemicals) for future reference/ target goals? I am wondering because of the pristine micro-ecology nature of the location they were collected if there are some very specific food sources that are more critical for reproduction, similar to how dart frogs raised on gnats are healthy but do not develop the poison at levels in nature. If they were more generally capable of breeding in more diverse conditions, they would likely be found in far more locations, no? Micronutrients and specific food source may be far more critical than other species.

I'm not sure if you have a remote local source that would be able to observe the micro ecology on site... Additionally, wild fish may be far more attuned to slight temperature or other environmental cues even down to certain plant activity for breeding. You've obviously got years in this, so I'm sure you've been looking at everything.

 

[GaryE]

We took "advanced basic" water tests, but that site was a long way from a lab, and you do what you can.

There's no way to replicate the food sources, which would likely been ants. The streams had canopies of vines and overarching plants, and they formed a ceiling that was used as an insect highway. Ants seem to often be bad drivers, and stomach content analysis in other habitats show them to be a steady part of the diet as they fall from the canopy. This was a hazard to us at times as the first habitat, where we caught Epiplatys huberi, had areas the locals said were off limits because the vines were loaded with particularly fiery fire ants. We didn't test that for ourselves, but I'll wager the Epiplatys like spicy food.

The temperature sensitivity has been taken into account.

Every day, I check the eggs treated in mild peroxide, and they were still good this morning, with development underway. If the problem is sensitivity to new, North American pathogens in the water, it can still go awry. I keep checking, with my fingers scientifically crossed...

It is fun to attack these puzzles. It'll be even more fun if I get fry to raise.

 

[noahm]

Best of luck with this round.

 

[GaryE]

It's interesting to see when people relax and get off the treadmill for a few days. I've had 3 people drop by and trade plants for pairs of killies since Christmas. Two I had never met before. Both said they'd been meaning to get in touch, but with work and life..

All of my extra pairs of nigerianus Makurdi have homes, and one pair of Aphyosemion exigoideum just went to a beautiful planted tank the guy has been running for 6 months without fish.

So fish go out and I get to meet some good people, one of whom lives just up the road.

The barter economy got me some nice stem plant cuttings, some Cryptocoryne wendtii and some floaters.

 

[GaryE]

Today, I grabbed a 3 hour block to do something a fishroom lets you do - change things.

It started with my concern about a very old, 30 inch 25 gallon tank. It was not well made, and I figured it was a seam split waiting to happen. So I emptied it and carried it out to the garage.
Then it began.
You see, when I knew I was going fishing in Gabon last summer, I put up and filled all the tanks I'd stored. I didn't plan well. Today was a great adjustment day. I emptied 22 tanks to enough water to keep the fish safe. Then I pulled out the power tools and modified a rack, after moving it. It now holds 10 5.5 gallon tanks (for fry) and has 2 shelves facing the window for house plants. Two 20 gallons went where 5 5.5s had been on a large rack. 2 15 gallon cubes went to a vacant shelf section that had held plants. 2 20 gallons - my turtle tank and a killie tank, went on the rack where the scrapped tank had been. Then, in space that had been blocked by badly placed racks, I filled in with end out 10 gallons. I added dechlor, filled everything, hooked up the air to each tank and was done.

I started at 10 and finished at 1.

Results?

It's still too crowded, but much more ergonomic for water changes and maintenance. The air circulation is far better, as is the light. 4 lights are back in reserve, and 2 power filters got the boot, hopefully reducing running costs. And the houseplants are in a way better set up.

I figure I'm, good for at least 3 months before I decide I need a big change again.

 

[GaryE]

Today had a funny moment. It's only maybe 4 car lengths from the door to the garage with the fishroom. So I rarely put on a jacket or boots. Today was really bad for ice, and I made like an olympic penguin in my sandals (no socks) over to the garage, stuck the key in the door, and, the key didn't go in. The lock was frozen. By then, so was I. So I did a more desperate penguin dance back to the house, across ice you could skate on.
It was not elegant.
I had to get properly dressed, and microwave one of those bags you use to put on sore muscles. I held it on the lock for a few minutes til it thawed, and from there, all was good. The room itself was 22c.
I bet that's not an issue for my Australian TFF friends.
It's not even cold like our friends out west are dealing with. It snowed all day yesterday, then bucketed rain prior to flash freezing.

In the cozy fishroom, it was all part of the waiting game. The Cichlid fry, if they've survived in their protected cave, could be 2 more days before I see them. Killie eggs take 2 weeks or so, for the killies I keep. I'm conditioning some cardinals for breeding, but that will be one more day til the breeding tank, then a few more to see if it works.