Not sure what to do now?

[stevedines]

Not sure what to do now? Had my tank running (180 litre)for nearly three weeks and all but one of my fish has died. Started off adding both ammovec and nitrivec for the first 10 days to get the cycle going. Added my first fish (6 Cherry Barbs and 4 Penguin Tetras) after a week after starting the tank and all was good for another week or so. This was until Wednesday night. Went to bed and all was fine, fish looked happy and were swimming as normal, but the next morning, it was a different story. My penguins had all died! Checked the nitrite levels and this was high so did a partial water change. This seemed to work at the barbs perked up. This was until yesterday and we are back to square one, nitrite is back up again despite another partial water change and four of the six dead. Another water change later, but this morning the other two have also died.
Which leads to my question. Obviously the tank is not cycled yet, but do I leave the tank running with the exsisting water and allow the cycle to continue, or should I empty the tank and start again?
Any help or advice would be appreciated

 

[Phantom Thief]

You must understand that, to cycle, the bacteria needs an ammonia source. So you will need to put in some form of ammonia into the tank to cycle it.

Here, check this out, its a good read http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

P.T.

 

[stevedines]

Thanks for the reply.
Will I need to keep adding ammonia? I thought that once the cycle had got to the nitrite stage, the ammonia stage was complete as the bacteria were converting the ammonia present into the nitrite which is now present?

 

[Phantom Thief]

True, but if you stop putting in ammonia, the nitrite bacteria will continue to grow, but the ammonia bacteria will die out when they have no more ammonia to process

P.T.

 

[skimpy]

It does sound to me that you had not fully cycled your tank.

If you are going to do a fishless cycle you need to stick with it untill the end and it has matured before adding fish.

If you are cycling with fish you need to watch you levels carefully and only add few fish at a time when levels are 0 then watch out for the next spike.

My main tank was cycled with fish. You may find this link helpful to show how a tank can go up and down when adding fish and how regularly you need to do water tests and changes My cycle

The other link is my baby tank with I cycled with filter media from main tank. My levels of ammonia and nitrite however were at zero before I added any fish. My baby cycle

I let the spike of nitrate go higher in fishless, with no worries, but you can't do that if you have fish in tank.

One more link that may help is Nitrogen Cycle you will see in this link that nitrites take a lot longer to go down than ammonia, both of which are toxic to fish.

Good luck let us know how you get along.

Sorry to hear about your losses

 

[stevedines]

OK, think that is settled then, think I will keep with the water and carry on fishless. Do I purchase ammonia from my pet shop or will I have to go to a chemist?

 

[kev_kb]

How often did you test the water and what sort of levels where you getting when the fish were still alive?

I'm cycling with fish at the moment and I'm about 1.5 weeks in. I've got 8 Neon Tetras & 3 Albino Corys (yes, probably too many fish reall) I think everything is going fine but this post has me worried! But I guess different types of fish have very different tolerances to the water conditions?

 

[skimpy]

OK, think that is settled then, think I will keep with the water and carry on fishless. Do I purchase ammonia from my pet shop or will I have to go to a chemist?

Hi Steve, I think thats a good idea to keep water and carry on with fishless cycle. I have read on TFF that people in UK have a problem finding ammonia though.

However, as you seem to have passed through the ammonia spike and are onto the nitrite spike perhaps you could feed the bacteria with flake as I did with my baby tank.

Can someone confirm if I am infact correct for us please It worked for me on my baby tank but I started with filter media from main tank. Would this work for Steve ??? Thanks


Edit spelling

 

[stevedines]

Here goes for a stupid question.

Skimpy, you have said that you have fed you tank 'flake', is this food flakes? My local store says this (ie overfeeding) may have been a cause for the nitrite spike in the first place?

 

[clutterydrawer]

Adding excess food to your tank, either with or without fish, will cause an ammonia spike followed by a nitrite spike.

However, when running a fishless cycle, this is the intention.

You may have trouble finding ammonia here (UK). Have a look in a small hardware store, like a local one not one of the big chain ones. If you really can't find any you could try phoning Jeyes who manufacture household ammonia and see if they'd tell you where your nearest stockist is.
Rememer that the ammonia must be pure, i.e. nothing but ammonia and water. if it foams when shaken, it's no good.

Edit: or if you know anyone who works in a school you can ask them to "borrow" some for you.

 

[skimpy]

Steve

Yes it is fish food flakes, and don't apologise no question is stupid. (well some maybe hee hee )

As clutterydrawer says 'that is the intention', at the moment you want your tank to spike so that it can complete the cycle.

You lfs is also correct that overfeeding (when you have fish) can cause the tank to spike and that (when you have got fish) is not what you want.

When you have fish they eat the food and their waste is the ammonia that continually feeds the bacteria and keeps the cycle going. If you add flake this turns into ammonia when not eaten by fish and keeps the tank cycling. So when you overfeed, in effect you are adding two amounts of ammonia, one from rotting food and one from fish waste.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[stevedines]

Thanks for the reply.
Checked the levels again last night, no ammonia, nitrite @ 0.5, and nitrate @ 40. How does this sound? The nitrite has definately dropped since earlier in the week, am I reaching the end of the cycle?

 

[skimpy]

yes I think that sounds fine. Just hang in there Steve keep feeding bacteria, either ammonia or flake and you should find one day your nitrites will drop to zero. The Nitrates are building so it definately sounds as if it working in the right direction.

Remember the nitrates (NO3) may well rise a lot more yet, when you have reached 0 for nitrites (NO2) you will need to do a water changes to dilute the nitrates (NO3) before adding fish.

Good luck - let us know how it all goes

 

[pendragon]

Checked the levels again last night, no ammonia, nitrite @ 0.5, and nitrate @ 40. How does this sound? The nitrite has definately dropped since earlier in the week, am I reaching the end of the cycle?

Stevedines,

I know how hard it is not to get excited when it feels like the cycle may be coming to an end, but always remember that patience is important. Your cycle is completed when all three of these criteria are met, and not one moment before:

1. Ammonia drops to zero and remains at zero
2. Nitrite drops to zero and remains at zero
3. Nitrate is detectable and rises steadily

Until all three of these occur, it doesn't really matter where you are in the cycle. Unless you've just crossed one of the two thresholds where ammonia or nitrite dissapears it is very difficult to guess, anyway. Typically a tank shouldn't have 40 ppm of Nitrate and still have detectable Nitrite, so that makes me think something is a little odd in your tank, like a previous cycle was in process and interrupted when a new one began. Just hang in there and keep at it. You'll get there!

As mentioned before, once the 'cycle completed' criteria have been met and maintained for a day or two, you should water change as necessary to get your Nitrates down before adding fish; how low you should get Nitrate presence down is somewhat a matter of preference - I'd recommend changing until they get down to 10 to 15 ppm, but certainly no higher that 20 to 25 ppm.

Remember the fishkeeper's mantra: "Impatience is my enemy."

Best of luck,

pendragon!

 

[stevedines]

Thanks for the reply. It will have to be a case of being patient anyway as I am away on business for a few days so would not be able to do anything else until I get back. Think that may be blessing. Will check the water for a couple of days when I get back and hopefully all should be well.