Not Enough Fish?

[nike12301]

Ok so the two neons I have in a 36 gallon tank, isn't 12.5%, right? Which means I DO probably need a few more fish in there to cycle?

No?

 

[Truck]

dont cycle with neons!!! take them back and buy something hardy

 

[cor2008]

why not take them back, buy a bottle of ammonia and with your added media you'll probably have the tank cycled in 2 to 3 weeks. hopefully leading to a tank ready for a nice fish load with minimum stress on you & your fish.

probably not the answer you were looking for but the best IMHO...

 

[Truck]

^^^good idea

 

[Lazerus]

Definitely not the answer you were looking for....

Buying more fish only adds to your ammonia problem....your filter isn't cycled, and you will be at risk of damaging your fish permanently or loosing the fish altogether if you don't keep on top of the large water changes...and on a 36gal tank, that is no small task.

I know what I would do anyway! Its far less heartache & expense relocating those little fish and doing a fishless cycle with a bottle of ammonia for a couple of weeks.

 

[nike12301]

Would getting a divider and putting the tetras in the 10 gallon tank with my betta be risky? I don't do regular testing on the tank but it's not exactly the cleanest. There always seems to be a little film of little white spots on the surface of the water that I can't get rid of.

 

[rabbut]

Contarary to popular belief of LFS staff, the fewer the fish during the set-up stage the better The more fish, the more Ammonia and Nitrite, the more the risk of loosing or seriously damaging the health of your fish

If you have Ammonia present from the fish you have, there is enough load to cycle the tank. Don't add more untill Ammonia and Nitrite have read nil for a week before you add more

All the best
Rabbut

Ok then what's with the post saying you need 25% of your total stocking for your tank to cycle? Is that not true?

How about the fact that I've had .25 ppm for ammonia for about three weeks without any real increase?

It seems like there's a lot of schools of thought that contradict each other on this forum and it's tough to sort out sometimes.

OK, let me try to explain the logic behind my reasoning of less is more

Filter bacteria can multiply at a constant rate if excess Ammonia and/or nitrite is available. This means that to cycle a tank to consume 1ppm of ammonia in 24hours will take exactly the same time if you add back up to 5ppm each day, as it would if you add upto 1ppm each day. More food won't speed growth, in fact in some extream cases where Ammonia gets above about 8ppm, the excess food will start to poison the filter bacteria aswell. It's ironic that the organisums we rely on to remove Ammonia are sencitive to Ammonia poisoning themselves....

What effects growth rates for filter bacteria? Many things. The most commonly touted are Oxygen levels, pH level, Temperature and the number of filter bacteria in the water you use to fill the tank. Long story short, your filter bacteria come initially from the water you use to fill the tank if you don't use mature media to start off. Under ideal situations, the filter bacteria can double in colony size in 24 hours.

So, basically, filter bacteria conony size will continue to grow as fast as possible, regardless of tank loads, just so long as there is Ammonia available. Adding more fish just leads to more ammonia in the tank and more risk to the fish that are in the tank undergoing the cycling process for you The cycle for the current load will take just as long, though adding more fish will increase the cycle-time by a few days, again increasing the risk factor.

It seems like there's a lot of schools of thought that contradict each other on this forum and it's tough to sort out sometimes.

there are no rules in fishkeeping (well maybe a few)

I guess maybe I should rephrase my question.

What would make my tank finish cycling faster? Leaving the two tetras as is and hoping I finally see some nitrites soon? Or getting a fish more fish in hope that it will kick start things?

By the way, I have filter media from an established tank in there for about a week and I've used Stress Zyme and I still haven't seen anything other than just .25 ppm of ammonia and absolutely no nitrites in three weeks.

There are no rules to fishkeeping, but there are many "best practice" guidelines touted to keep beginners "safe"

To get the tank to cycle faster, try to get hold of some filter media from a mature tank. Other than this, there is little you can do to speed along the cycle Keeping the tank as warm as your current species will tollerate and increaseing surface agetation may help a little, but reaults from this won't be as spectacular as mature media

All the best
Rabbut

 

[alchemist]

Just out of interest - what sort of filter do you have in the tank? and how are you reading 0.25 ammonia - test strips?

 

[nike12301]

Just out of interest - what sort of filter do you have in the tank? and how are you reading 0.25 ammonia - test strips?

Thanks so much for clarifying rabbut. It makes much more sense now.

alchemist, I'm using an Aqueon Power Filter 30. And I had two used Biobags from my established 10 gallon tank shoved into filter to try to kick start things.

My readings come from a API master test kit. The ammonia usually just touches up to .25 ppm. I even tested my plain tap water to see the difference between the ammonia reading I get from the tank and the clean tap water - and the difference really isn't much. It's just got a tiny tint of green that the clean water doesn't have. That's why it's discouraging. Even the ammonia readings don't seem to rise much as I understand they should when cycling.

 

[SummerDG]

Just out of interest - what sort of filter do you have in the tank? and how are you reading 0.25 ammonia - test strips?

Thanks so much for clarifying rabbut. It makes much more sense now.

alchemist, I'm using an Aqueon Power Filter 30. And I had two used Biobags from my established 10 gallon tank shoved into filter to try to kick start things.

My readings come from a API master test kit. The ammonia usually just touches up to .25 ppm. I even tested my plain tap water to see the difference between the ammonia reading I get from the tank and the clean tap water - and the difference really isn't much. It's just got a tiny tint of green that the clean water doesn't have. That's why it's discouraging. Even the ammonia readings don't seem to rise much as I understand they should when cycling.

I can't give any advice, but want to let you know you're not alone on this question! I have a 240 litre/64 gallon tank and received contrasting advice from two experts about fishless or fish in cycling. I went with the fish in cycling advice from my LFS because his fish are all healthy and his tanks are amazing and he's been in business for 25 years. I'm terrified of losing a fish, although it will eventually happen to everyone.

I have six zebra danios, 7 live plants, 2 pieces of bogwood, some fake plants and rocks on top of gravel. It's been 5 days and the fish are super happy. I have only seen a slight increase in my ammonia and nitrite so like you was wondering if I needed more fish. I've been assured to leave it as is, and that the levels will spike quickly someday soon. I test twice a day and have been doing 5 - 10% water changes daily.

Today I added a large rock with holes in it the fish can swim through and a background print to the backside of the tank. The zebras have been especially happy since then. I wonder if the change in environment and darker background made them more comfortable.

I'm going with the slowly, slowly catchy monkey (or bacteria) approach! Best of luck to you too!

 

[OldMan47]

An answer that may be more to your liking and is still the truth might be nice.
You do not need a particular number or a particular percentage of final stocking to cycle a tank. If there is any ammonia detectable, there is enough to cycle the tank. More fish would just mean higher ammonia levels would be reached quickly and you would need to start doing water changes to hold down the ammonia levels. As it is, you have a very low stocking level so the chemistry is unlikely to get away from you as long as you monitor it.
When your cycle is done, the next step will be to gradually increase the fish levels in the tank. When you start with a very small stock level, each step up after that also needs to be quite small. The bacteria that you are establishing in your filter will need time to grow to a larger number each time you add any fish so nice and slow means the chemistry stays good and you don't lose fish. Although neons or cardinals are usually a poor choice for cycling a tank, you may get away with it because you have such a small stock and can keep your chemistry under good control.