Noob Questions

Rox

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Hi everyone, I got my tank in January and let it run until now to make sure the ammonia was at 0, and changed about 15-20% of the water weekly. So everything looks good now.

I went to my LFS today, the lady asked the usual questions such as what is the temperature, what is the ammonia, and how do you change the water. I tell her I just take about 15% of the water out and replace it with cold tap water because that's what the instructions said.

Well apparantly that is totally wrong and she says I have to vacuum (!?) the gravel, and all these other things I'm not familiar with. Now I'm starting to read up on siphoning but I still have no idea what it's purpose is.

I'm sorry, I know you guys probably get threads like this all the time and it's very annoying but I really need some help here. I read the stickies. I have 2 small fish already.
 
Just off the top, which instructions said to replace the water with cold tap water? You should 1) dechlorinate all water put back into your tank, and 2) make sure it's approximately the same temp as the tank water. You can use boiling water to bring up the temp of the tap water, or just warm water from the tap, depending on how that water is. Use your master test kit to test the tap water if you're unsure.

Using a vacuum siphon on your gravel removes the built-up poo and uneaten food that collects there.

More experienced folks will answer here as well, I'm sure, but that's what hit me right off the bat. Good luck!
biggrin.gif
 
Just off the top, which instructions said to replace the water with cold tap water? You should 1) dechlorinate all water put back into your tank, and 2) make sure it's approximately the same temp as the tank water. You can use boiling water to bring up the temp of the tap water, or just warm water from the tap, depending on how that water is. Use your master test kit to test the tap water if you're unsure.

Using a vacuum siphon on your gravel removes the built-up poo and uneaten food that collects there.

More experienced folks will answer here as well, I'm sure, but that's what hit me right off the bat. Good luck!
biggrin.gif
Hi, thanks for answering...

The instructions came with my Top Fin tank kit, which is a PetSmart brand. So I assume that's just typical corporate practice. Come to think of it, all of the intructions were pretty terrible.

I finally got the siphoning deal now. I kept reading all around and thought it was just a method for changing the water but I knew there obviously had to be more to it than that.

So I'll be careful with changing the water now. My tank is around 75F. I also forgot to mention in the first post that it's a 10GL tank, if you wanted to know.

Thanks! :)
 
Hi Rox and welcome to the forum. All honest questions from people who seek answers are welcome.

If you have gravel you will want a gravel vacume, a big tube attached to a siphon hose. When you get the siphon going you stick the tube in the gravel and move it around and you will be amazed at the gunk and old food and poop that rises. Then lift the big tube out of the gravel and inch or two and all the gravel drops out and the gunk goes up the siphon tube and into your waiting bucket or whatever is at the end of the siphon hose. Just a lot of stuff gets into gravel. It is good to have a bucket because on rare occasion it has happened that a small fish gets siphoned... but this is really easy to avoid.

If you have sand it takes a bit more finesse. You skip the fat vacume tube and just swirl you siphon hose above the sand to get poop and other waste from fish, plants, wood etc.. to rise up and get sucked up. With fine sand the waste stays on top. I say finesse as all of us have siphoned up sand but that is not desired of course.

This is part of a normal maintenance routine.

Always ask questions, that is how you learn.

Have fun and welcome again.
 
I am going to put a twist on this that is not going to change our recommendation for Rox (Hi Rox and Welcome to TFF) but is the kind of tidbit I know our members are watching for:

There is not -necessarily- a problem with refilling 15% or less of the tank water with UN-conditioned cold tap water! Just like the cold will be diluted so much that the overall tank temperature will not drop more than 2 degrees (F/C, whatever), the chlorines and chloramines will also be diluted so much that only the most delicate fish would have much chance of being hurt by them. If you were to look, you probably find some experienced members on TFF who simply use straight tap water for small changes. BUT, note that they also usually have a mature tank!

There are two main reasons we highly recommend using a good conditioner here in the newcomer/beginner section: First, many, if not most of our beginners are in some stage of cycling their biofiltration. If their tank is only 6 months old or younger then the two bacterial colonies are still maturing (there is significant maturation out through 6 months and small amounts of further settling in for the first full year.) While the colonies are still maturing (and maturing means more than cycling) it is still important to protect the investment in time and effort you've made during cycling from possible damage via chlorine or chloramines. While even a normal dose of unconditioned water may cause some damage and setback to the bacteria, the real concern are those days when the folks at the water plant decide to "shock" their pipes (just like the pool managers sometimes "shock" a pool after a kid has an accident.) They sometimes inject a larger dose of one of the chlorine containing products and it can make it all the way down to your tap!

The second reason most of us just use conditioner as a habit is that it is really just very, very cheap insurance; so cheap that there's hardly a downside. If you use a high concentration conditioner, such as the Seachem Prime that we often recommend, you've really covered youself against the odd "shock day." This is why most of us would never bother to change the habit, even after our tanks are mature.

There is another detail to the conditioner thing. While we are still in the first 2 or 3 months (ie. still cycling) or even the first 6 months, it is really good practice to overdose your conditioner to the tune of 1.5x to 2x dosing. Many old-timers will actually tell you to overdose, saying any overdose can't hurt. I disagree with that because of some discussion with Dr. Hovanec, which basically boiled down to his observation or hunch that dosing conditioner higher than 2x caused a slow-down in Nitrospira reproduction. I don't believe it was a heavily tested thing but to me it seemed reasonable to take it as prudent upper limit barring further knowledge.

(Again, apologies to Rox here for all this detail. The real skill your question plays to is about the technique and idea behind the "gravel-clean-water-change" concept and others have made a start on that. It is a very important skill to understand and practice.)

~~waterdrop~~ :D
 
Okay, I just screwed up big time...

I did my first siphoning which took out about 25% of the water. The other day I filled up a bucket of tap water and put in some Nutrafin Cycle which would make it ready for the tank. Well it turns out the ammonia in the bucket is still about 2.0. I waited two more days and now it's over 4.0! So now I have two platys swimming in an almost half-empty tank with no clue how to fill it back up.

Edit: I searched the forum, and most people agree that Nutrafin Cycle is totally useless. So, I have to cope with this for a little while longer...
 
Do you have a conditioner (a product to remove chlorine/chloramines from the tap water?) Your re-fill tap water needs to be treated with this. You follow instructions and dose at what they say on the bottle (or up to 2x times that but not more than 2x while you're cycling.) You also need to mix warm/hot water with cold water such that you roughly temperature match the return water to what the tank water was (you can use your hand to compare a cup of tank water to the water coming out of your tap as you adjust it.) All the water that you remove from the tank should be removed via the substrate-cleaning-siphon process, even if the substrate seems clean to you. This is because more organics and other things in the water will tend to hang closer to the substrate area, not to mention debris.

You are in what sounds like an emergency fish-in cycling situation. Fish can die pretty fast at ammonia levels of several ppm and multiple very large (75-80%) water changes per day may be needed at first to get the situation under control. Under control means keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) levels (as measured by good liquid test kits) between zero ppm and 0.25ppm.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hi, thanks so much for your post.

So, I got Seachem Prime and it is way better than the Cycle. I will still keep it just in case but I highly doubt I will ever use it again.

Question. How long do I wait for the Prime to dechlorinate(?) the tap water waiting in the bucket? I waited one hour for the first bucket just to be safe. Now I am waiting for the second bucket.
 
It works immediately. You dont need to wait around.

There are two ways of doing it:

You can either dose each individual bucket with dechlorinator or

Add it straight to the tank. If you do it this way then you need to dose it to the volume of the tank and not the the amout of water you are adding.
 

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