Non Reef Tank Set Up

craftycarper52

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i would like to set up a 48 x 18 x 18 non reef set up focusing on just fish. well.... where do i start lol i have been keeping discus for a while now but want a change. how would i filter a tank like this? can i just have a sand substrate and some live rock? any help apprecated
 
Your tank is about 67 usg. You'll need 67 lbs or 30 kg.

You'll need:

1) MOST IMPORTANTLY a water source. Are you using tap water? R/O? LFS bought premixed salt water?
-------if you're mixing your own you'll need an additional food safe bucket/tub (size depends on how much you'll be mixing) with a small power head to stir it up and disolve it, heater....the SG won't test right if it's not up to temp, another bucket to store in if you're not mixing up all your water right away and are using r/o.
2) means of measuring your specific gravity...ie. swing arm hydrometer (not very reliable...drop the thing once and it could give you a false reading), floating hydrometer (better but if you drop it, you'll really make a mess), or a refractometer (most hard core saltwater enthusiasts/reefers recommend these. they don't have to cost and arm and a leg. I bought mine for 35 usd off ebay including shipping)
3)heater that is rated for saltwater (not all are rated for saltwater)
4)Powerheads that equal 20x tank turnover= 67gallons x 20 tank turnover= 1340 gallons that need to be pushed through powerheads. This is to ensure good circulation in the live rock.

Sorry there's more, but I should go. Read this. Very full of usefull info:
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=138236
 
thanks for the info. i dont understand how people use live rock to filter the water, is it placed in a sump or in the main aquarium? i already use ro water for my discus which i will use for the marine tank.
 
You dont have to use LR, if you just want fish you could just use base rock, or ocean rock.

Your tank could be as simple as a fresh water tank just with salt added, though if you want LR go for it.
 
Betta5 he can't use all base rock/ocean rock to start with, unless it's been in a tank and has filtration capacity already.

"To the beginner, live rock, further refferred to as LR, can be quite topic to get familiar with.


LR has some important characteristics that makes the question, "How long have you had this curing?" all important.

Always remember the importance of LR and the effect that it has on your system. A sufficent quantity of quality LR can provide nearly all of your filtration needs. Therefore, inversely, uninformed decisions about LR and the addition of the wrong stuff to your tank can be disastrous.

Now to clear up some terms and definitions.

Live rock Rock that has life on it. This may include some or all of pods, algaes, sponges, bacterias, along with any hitch hiking life that could be stuck in a nook ot cranny. This rock is in an established ecosysytem, be it the ocean, or aqaurium.

Cured live rock This is live rock that has been shipped or moved, and has been cured,(aged), in some type of holding tank to stabilize it and promote the growth of all the good stuff that survived the journey.

Uncured live rock Any live rock that has been ot of water for more that an hour, two maximum, should be considered to have die off on it and be treated as uncured.

Base rock This is the dry bones stuff you find on the shelf at the lfs. It was once live rock, but is now, of course, devoid of all life.

Now here is where it gets a little confusing. The prices of this stuff can be pretty outrageous. I myself have paid over a hundred dollars for a piece of rock the size of a football. And yes, my wife knows, she is the one who thought it was "neat".

Most of the rock we all buy at the lfs is cured rock, or should be. It comes out of the big tank with all the rock in it. This is their curing tank. Very important here to insure that they have had it curing for a couple of weeks at least.

If they just got it in two days ago, you will be buying a rock that will most certainly cause a large ammonia spike in your tank upon introduction. Because it is uncured, and still has die off occuring.

The biggest misunderstanding around; You cannot order LR and have it shipped to you. It is certainly live rock when it is packaged, but during shipping, it becomes uncured.

Curing is easy, however. You get a tank large enough to hold your uncured stuff, put in in, add some lights, a couple of power heads, and a skimmer. You then let it cycle as you would a new tank. When all your parameters stabilize, it is cured, and safe to add to the established system. But unless you are an over the top hobbiest, or have an enormous setup, this can be impractable.

On chosing your LR. Not all are created equal. Some are lighter than others allowing you more volume for the buck. Most certainly try to avoid the stuff that is just a big non porous type of boulder. Try to get the most porous stuff you can. This will give all the life and good bacteria sufficient room to prosper. Also have stackability in the back of your mind. You will want to pile it all on top of one another at some point.

Base rock. Here is a chance to shine. You can easily start out with a third of the volume of your LR as base rock. Try to use this opportunity with the "cheap stuff" to get some interesting pieces as they will eventually become LR as your system matures.

When building a reef, always leave some room for the freebie stuff you will get when purchasing some corals. I have got some real cool stuff at times beacause the coral cannot be separated from it."

This was in that link I gave to you. I wish you'd read it. It will answer a lot of questions you have.

Live rock is porous in nature and has nooks and cranies all over it. The powerheads push the water in and around that rock to give it good circulation/aireation. Bacteria that processes ammonia, nitrite and nitrate will grow inside of it. It does what freshwater canister/hob filters do. Plus, creatures will eat stuff in and around the rock and reproduce (like copeopods). Lots of fish eat the "pods" and having live rock enables us to keep many different fish that we couldn't keep before.
 
actually i did read it but it didnt answer my question! so the LR deals with biological filtration but what about mechanical filtration?
 
That's why we still do water changes. If anything gets a chance to settle, we can suck it off. There shouldn't be that much to settle but poo(detritus). There are organisms in saltwater that do actually break that down for us. Bristle worms and stuff.
 
ok thankyou, so i do not need a sump or external filter etc just good flow and plenty of live rock? just seems strange to me because with my tropicals i have always had tons of filtration lol
 
I know, it's kind of odd. It'll be nice, I presume :)

If you can have a sump, it's generally considered better. You have more water volume (less swings in temp, sg and things like that),you have a place to hide equipment (skimmer, heater, create a refugium, additional filtration media...sometimes people add other equipment down there). You don't need one. I'm not having one on my 29g but will on my 120g.
 
sounds good to me :D i guess everything else is more or less the same as tropical freshwater like cycling the tank, acclimatising fish etc etc? can i use plain sand for substrate or would it be better to use coral sand? what ph should i be aiming for? doesnt it need to be around 8.0, if i use pure ro water how will i achieve this?
 
sounds good to me :D i guess everything else is more or less the same as tropical freshwater like cycling the tank, acclimatising fish etc etc?

yep, pretty much. They are much more sensitive though. If the SG is different, it takes longer to acclimatize them. Use airline hose and some kinda clip(I've gota get one) to slowly drip the water. It can take anywhere from an hour to a few hours depening on what your acclimatizing and how different the waters are. Inverts are more sensitive (snails and stuff) than fish...from what I read. I know all this stuff from all the research I've done. I haven't actually done it yet :blush: but am well on my way :D

can i use plain sand for substrate or would it be better to use coral sand? what ph should i be aiming for? doesnt it need to be around 8.0,
Coral sand as it buffers the water. Ph around 8.3

if i use pure ro water how will i achieve this?
Thats where the salt mixes come in. They buffer the water and add the needed elements.
Examples for ya:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_...cfm?c=3578+4685
 

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