No Changes Yet

[DJackson]

Hi guys,

Just an update on my cycling. It's been over a week with fish in. It's a 50L tank. 4 neons 4 Pristella. Two broad leafed plants with two very small pieces of bogwood.
I've been keeping a log of chemical results, water changes and amounts, as well as fish behaviour and plant behaviour, as well as any additional changes I've made.
I would love someone to check over this if at all possible?

Over the week, I've been doing daily water changes due to the amount of fish I have stocked. Usually 50%.

For the first few days, the fish were sat at the bottom of the tank, neons under the filter.
Two days ago, I added 5 more plants to give them some hiding places (Vallisneria spiralis) and two tall grass plants? and I moved the bogwood to a new arrangement.
I also removed the black vinyl on the back as with the daily water changes it wasn't easy to keep looking nice.
I also moved the filter to point lengthways in case the current was too strong.
The result of these changes: Pristellas now shoal mid level very happily. Three neons also happily meandering. One neon still prefers the filter.
It could have been stress of a new tank but they perked up as soon as I did the above. No idea which parameter did it, but hey. As long as they're happy

What worries me though is that I'm still not getting any Ammonia nor Nitrite readings. That's with two separate brands of test strips.
I am however, getting Nitrate readings. Usually 10 for the last few days, upped to between 10 and 25mg/l as of this morning.
The PH is 6.4 or below, GH is mid. KH is mid. Cl 0.

As I understand, Ammonia should be the first to appear? Rather it seems to have jumped straight to Nitrates which after some research is the final in the cycle and is controlled primarily through water changes.
So my questions are:

Am I changing the water too frequently to allow Ammonia to build enough for bacteria to develop?
Assuming it is in fact 0, then surely the relevant bacteria will not become established?
Would the plants have a role in the results I'm seeing?

The two grass type plants (similar to the type of grass you find on sand dunes) have started to yellow at the tips while the others are fine. I'll keep a close eye and remove them if they get worse.
After some research, I believe I may need a stronger light if I'm planning on heavy planting. The substrate is a 2-4mm gravel.
I'm hoping to change the substrate at a later date with something a little finer, although I'm also thinking of some sort of carpeting plant such as java moss in preparation for the albino corys in a few months time.
It would be nice to have some ground plants somewhat established for them.

I'll also be obtaining some filter media from my Dad's established pond during next week. As far as he can tell, the pond is disease free.
Is there anything in particular I should be aware of when adding this medium to my filter?

Sorry for the length of the post, I'm trying to cover all the bases I can think of incase you spot something and think ''ah!''
Lots to think about but I'm enjoying the challenge.

Thank you in advance

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I would post photos in the planted section to get IDs on the "tall grass plants" because they may not be aquatic at all, sadly a lot of fish shops sell attractive non-aquatics that simply rot, causing water quality issues.

The tall grass plants and Vallis are no doubt giving the fish a better sense of security, making them feel bolder about swimming higher in the tank.

The intensity of lighting needed will depend entirely on the plants you have, some might need bright lighting, but this often goes hand in hand with needing to feed the plants with fertiliser and a source of carbon (whether that is carbon dioxide or a liquid type such as Easycarbo).

If you can keep up these ~50% daily water changes that will be great, there will always be some ammonia in the water despite our test kits appearing to be a pure zero, this will give the bacteria plenty to feed on.

A bit of filter media from the pond should help you cycle the tank, there is a small risk of cross contamination (especially being from an outdoor pond exposed to all the elements), but if your dad is happy the pond fish are in good health it should be fine.

 

[DJackson]

Great thanks
I was worried that I might be removing too much water and therefore preventing any cycling.

I've had a look on some aquatic plant websites and can't seem to spot the one that isn't doing so well. I'll definitely post a picture.

Hopefully the Api tests should arrive soon. The strips seem responsive enough though if read after 5 minutes the colours tend to be different than the reading at one minute as per the instructions. Not wildly, but nitrite will be present on the reading after five minutes.

Thank you for your reply

 

[DJackson]

Right. I've decided not to go back to the local fish store.

I took in a water sample today and asked them to test the water as I keep getting 0 ammonia.
One of the Vallis at water change yesterday was completely rotten just above the roots so I threw it away. The fish are doing great and seem happy so I'm probably being overly cautious.

They had the same readings as myself of 0 ammonia, nitrite 0 and nitrate 10.

I asked why the ammonia isn't starting to increase quicker with the amount of fish I have and a non cycled tank, and why I was getting nitrates at this early stage.

They said that nitrites will spike after a week, followed by ammonia then nitrates. (this as I understand from research is incorrect). He suggested that I don't change the water for the next few weeks to allow cycling, as I may be preventing the cycle by doing it too much and too frequently.

I'm really not so sure about that.

I suggested then to leave it for two days and test each day. On the second day with no water change and 8 stock I should be seeing more ammonia? He suggested testing once a week would be sufficient, and the tank should be cycled in a month.

I don't feel comfortable with this suggestion and I'm going to be following the advise I've had here. You guys all seem very helpful and knowledgable in comparison

There's a fish store on the other side of town that I've heard great things about. According to a friend who's kept fish for 10+ years, they even refuse to sell him fish when they think it's appropriate. They rarely sell fish without providing a water sample, and ask questions regarding current stock/tank size etc before selling fish. He says that they run the business out of passion for what they do, and educate customers as well as refuse sales. This place sounds quite a bit more trustworthy!

Hope your all well today

 

[4seasons]

What worries me though is that I'm still not getting any Ammonia nor Nitrite readings. That's with two separate brands of test strips.

You are more than likely not getting any ammonia reading because test strips are useless. You NEED a liquid based test kit like the API Master Freshwater Kit that many of us use. You likely are getting a reading on nitrate because of nitrate in your tap water. Either that or your test strips are giving false readings on nitrate too.
Water changes won't hurt anything as long as you temperature match and dechlorinate your water. Chances are when you get a good test kit you will find you need daily water changes for the next month or two to reduce the levels of ammonia and nitrite anyway.