Nitrate won’t go down, Oscar with Popeye(?)

[seangee]

I had popeye once and did a daily 75% water change for 2 weeks. No other treatment. for the first 10 days I saw no change and on day 11 the fish was completely normal.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I then checked the filters and they all needed to be changed. I bought new filters for everything, siphoned the sand (I read the nitrates could be coming off the sand?), and did another water change. The levels still haven’t budged and I think Bruces’(My Oscar) eye has gotten a little worse. I don’t know what else to do... I’m going to do a 70-80% change tomorrow. Maybe that will help. I don’t want my fish to die because I can’t get the nitrate down. I also read that it’s hard to treat popeye if your fish has it.

More info: I have a 125 gallon with 2 Oscars, no other fish. I have 2 Emperor 400’s and a Fluval Canister filter, I just replaced all of the filters inside. I think the nitrate level is 80ppm but I’m not sure, I’ll take a picture of that too.

Hi, I'm sorry I can't be of any help when it comes to popeye, but I am concerned about your cycle.

Firstly, test your tapwater for nitrates. There is some allowance for water companies to have a certain level of nitrates in the tapwater, so test this first to see if you have nitrates in yours, and how much.

Never a good idea to change all of your filter media at once I'm afraid. I understand the panic urge, but one of the main purposes of filtration is to grow colonies of nitrifying bacteria. Those that consume ammonia and convert it to the slightly less toxic, yet still dangerous nitrites, then another type of bacteria that consumes nitrites and turns them into much safer (yet still not good in high levels) nitrates. We manually remove nitrates through water changes.

The filter media you threw out would have been covered in those bacteria that keep the water safer for your fish. Hopefully there will enough bacteria left on the tank walls and substrate that you won't have to start the cycle from scratch, but you're almost certainly going to experience ammmonia and nitrite spikes over the following days, which is dangerous for your fish, I'm sorry. The best thing you can do now is reduce feeding - less food going in means less ammonia being produced. I don't know how long is reasonable to leave Oscars unfed, but most fish are fine for days without being fed. At the very least, only feed a very small amount an hour before doing a large water change, and make sure no food is left in the tank to go rotten and produce ammonia.

You need to test the water twice daily, and do a large (75%) water change any time ammonia or nitrites is anything other than zero. We can look at nitrates after you've tested your water.

If we're lucky and enough bacteria survived in your tank, it might only be a week of doing this before the colonies re-populate the new filter media and grow large enough to handle the bioload of your tank. But the only way through now is to keep testing and keep doing large water changes until ammonia and nitrite are consistently reading at zero, at which point your tank will have finished cycling, or got through the mini cycle. The large water changes will hopefully help with the popeye too.

In the past, how did you clean the filter media? What type of media do you have in your filters now? Make sure to only clean filter media in old tank water you've removed during a water change, never rinse it under tapwater since that contains chlorine to kill bacteria, and will kill the beneficial bacteria we're trying to grow in your filters.
A clear video on the nitrogen cycle, essential to know when keeping fish, and will help explain why you need to do large water changes when you get a reading for ammonia or nitrites

 

[Bruce1975]

Hi, I'm sorry I can't be of any help when it comes to popeye, but I am concerned about your cycle.

Firstly, test your tapwater for nitrates. There is some allowance for water companies to have a certain level of nitrates in the tapwater, so test this first to see if you have nitrates in yours, and how much.

Never a good idea to change all of your filter media at once I'm afraid. I understand the panic urge, but one of the main purposes of filtration is to grow colonies of nitrifying bacteria. Those that consume ammonia and convert it to the slightly less toxic, yet still dangerous nitrites, then another type of bacteria that consumes nitrites and turns them into much safer (yet still not good in high levels) nitrates. We manually remove nitrates through water changes.

The filter media you threw out would have been covered in those bacteria that keep the water safer for your fish. Hopefully there will enough bacteria left on the tank walls and substrate that you won't have to start the cycle from scratch, but you're almost certainly going to experience ammmonia and nitrite spikes over the following days, which is dangerous for your fish, I'm sorry. The best thing you can do now is reduce feeding - less food going in means less ammonia being produced. I don't know how long is reasonable to leave Oscars unfed, but most fish are fine for days without being fed. At the very least, only feed a very small amount an hour before doing a large water change, and make sure no food is left in the tank to go rotten and produce ammonia.

You need to test the water twice daily, and do a large (75%) water change any time ammonia or nitrites is anything other than zero. We can look at nitrates after you've tested your water.

If we're lucky and enough bacteria survived in your tank, it might only be a week of doing this before the colonies re-populate the new filter media and grow large enough to handle the bioload of your tank. But the only way through now is to keep testing and keep doing large water changes until ammonia and nitrite are consistently reading at zero, at which point your tank will have finished cycling, or got through the mini cycle. The large water changes will hopefully help with the popeye too.

In the past, how did you clean the filter media? What type of media do you have in your filters now? Make sure to only clean filter media in old tank water you've removed during a water change, never rinse it under tapwater since that contains chlorine to kill bacteria, and will kill the beneficial bacteria we're trying to grow in your filters.
A clear video on the nitrogen cycle, essential to know when keeping fish, and will help explain why you need to do large water changes when you get a reading for ammonia or nitrites

This has taught me a lot, thank you. I had no idea about the beneficial bacteria and I’ve always washed the cartridges I’ve had under tap water when it looked gross... not anymore!

I just tested the tap and it has a ppm of 0. I’m going to do the water change now, and I’ll test the tank water afterwards. Inside the 2 emperor 400’s there are activated carbon filters and bio wheels inside. In my canister filter I have added different components that I didn’t realize I needed(mechanical, biological, and chemical). What I had in there until 2 days ago when I took everything out and replaced it was what came with it; a sponge and floss pads, I also added an activated carbon pack into it.

I took all of that out though, I now have the same sponge(which I of course washed under tap water!!), bio rings, activated carbon, and floss pads. I think the only good thing I did was I still have 2 bio wheels I haven’t touched and I haven’t cleaned the walls in at least a couple months. Hopefully in this situation some of the bacteria is still in the tank? I’m not sure but I hope so.

 

[Bruce1975]

Also, I just noticed that my other Oscar is starting to also get an inflamed eye. So now both fish have Popeye. Besides water changes, does anyone know if epsom salt or aquarium salt would be better to help them a bit?

 

[Essjay]

Always aquarium salt. This is common salt, sodium chloride, but unlike the salt we use on our food it has no anti caking agents or iodine added to it. It is a mild antiseptic which can help with mild infections. If you use this, dissolve it is a bit of tank water before adding it to the tank. When you do a water change, add more salt for the amount of new water only to keep the level in the tank constant.

Epsom salt is magnesium sulphate and should never be added to a tank. It is used in a bath outside the tank to draw fluid from a swollen fish.

 

[Bruce1975]

Always aquarium salt. This is common salt, sodium chloride, but unlike the salt we use on our food it has no anti caking agents or iodine added to it. It is a mild antiseptic which can help with mild infections. If you use this, dissolve it is a bit of tank water before adding it to the tank. When you do a water change, add more salt for the amount of new water only to keep the level in the tank constant.

Epsom salt is magnesium sulphate and should never be added to a tank. It is used in a bath outside the tank to draw fluid from a swollen fish.

Thank you so much! I’m really glad I joined and posted on here because I would’ve done everything wrong. I’ve learned a lot though!

 

[Bruce1975]

So, I posted on here 2 weeks ago because I couldn’t get my nitrate down in my tank and I’m pretty sure it caused Popeye in my fish. I followed everyone’s advice, cleaned the water everyday, tested everyday, and added aquarium salt to the tank. I have two Oscars and while one had it, the other seemed to start to develop it in the beginning. Now, his eye seems to be back to normal. My concern is with my other one, as his eye seems to have gotten even worse. I should also mention that he managed to scratch the eye with Popeye.... while it was already inflamed and I think that made his condition worse. I’ll add a photo of his eye now. It’s just his left one, and I think he’s lost sight in it, although it’s not cloudy at all. Besides this he is acting completely normal. I just want to know if I should be adding any kind of medication inside the tank for him, or if daily water changes is the only thing that will help him.

 

[HoldenOn]

I remember your original post, it has definitely gotten worse. @Colin_T may will be the best help. Can a moderator merge this thread with the old one @essjay @Fishmanic @Deanasue


I have merged the two threads - essjay

 

[Bruce1975]

I remember your original post, it has definitely gotten worse. @Colin_T may will be the best help. Can a moderator merge this thread with the old one @essjay @Fishmanic @Deanasue

I remember you too, thanks for responding again! I’m worried his eyeball is going to pop out of his head or something D:

 

[HoldenOn]

I remember you too, thanks for responding again! I’m worried his eyeball is going to pop out of his head or something D:

I don't think that can happen, if it persists he could go blind and become fragile. @Wills may be able to help.

 

[Wills]

So I'm not sure that pop eye can be caused by high nitrates - how high are your nitrates? How big is the tank and what is your filtration? Do you have nitrates in your tap water? Do they ever fight?

Have you added anything new to the tank recently? Fish, plants, decor etc?

 

[Bruce1975]

I don't think that can happen, if it persists he could go blind and become fragile. @Wills may be able to help.

I think he’s already lost vision in that eye because he doesn’t seem to be able to see any food that goes by that side of his face, but he reacts if I put food by the normal eye... I don’t know if his vision can return if the swelling goes down but I hope so. What I’m most worrried about is that I read that the eyeball can rupture and fall out. Not sure if that’s true or not.

 

[HoldenOn]

So I'm not sure that pop eye can be caused by high nitrates - how high are your nitrates? How big is the tank and what is your filtration? Do you have nitrates in your tap water? Do they ever fight?

Have you added anything new to the tank recently? Fish, plants, decor etc?

He has another thread with most of those answers. I'll attach the link.


I have merged the two threads - see older posts for the details. Essjay

 

[Bruce1975]

So I'm not sure that pop eye can be caused by high nitrates - how high are your nitrates? How big is the tank and what is your filtration? Do you have nitrates in your tap water? Do they ever fight?

Have you added anything new to the tank recently? Fish, plants, decor etc?

Two weeks ago the nitrates were about 80ppm. Since then I’ve managed to keep it at around 5ppm. I have a 125 gallon tank, 2 emperor 400’s and a Fluval canister filter as well. They have been swimming towards each other, and attempt to lock jaws everyday. I have also been finding some scales around the tank when I clean it, but I’ve never seen them fight with each other. I just tested the tap and there’s no nitrates.

 

[Wills]

Two weeks ago the nitrates were about 80ppm. Since then I’ve managed to keep it at around 5ppm. I have a 125 gallon tank, 2 emperor 400’s and a Fluval canister filter as well. They have been swimming towards each other, and attempt to lock jaws everyday. I have also been finding some scales around the tank when I clean it, but I’ve never seen them fight with each other. I just tested the tap and there’s no nitrates.

Ok thats all great news in terms of the water and set up well done for putting the work in to get the nitrates down. It does not happen by accident so its really great that you have put that commitment in!

My guess would be that this could be caused by fighting and clashing rather than the water now then. Do you have any other fish in the tank?

Wills